Heckraiser's LC vs LX Conundrum [poll]

[Heckraiser]

I know this is one of those questions that only I can answer (I seem to post a lot of these), but I thought I would post up to get opinions and flames. I'm stuck in a bit of indecision paralysis.

I've had my 2010 LX570 for almost two years now. It is rust free, 158k miles, plenty of soccermom dings and dents and missing paint in a couple spots. It's silver, which I've never really loved. I've done AHC fluid change and starter replacement for maintenance. It rides nice, but "sport" suspension setting has gotten softer since I've owned it, so I suspect it might need globes changed eventually.

I have never loved the LX570 because it feels like it has an identity crisis. The interior and exterior design is uglier than the LC, IMO. Also, having driven a few LC200's now, I can verify that I prefer the ride/handling of traditional suspension over AHC. ACH is a technological wonder and really a good system, but to me it feels somehow disconnected from the road. Maybe it's just in my head, but I think I can actually feel that the LC is ~300 pounds lighter. It just feels more agile. I always told myself when I bought the LX that if the AHC suspension starts giving me trouble, I'd just gut it and put in a quality conventional suspension lift. Well, I've got one corner riding low (I have a mild front sensor lift) and I feel like globes are on the horizon, so I'm at that point of AHC needing some work.

There is a 2009 LC200 for sale near me with 180k miles. Exterior is in good shape, dark grey color, which I like, runs and drives nicely. Sitting behind the wheel, it makes me happy. It lived in the Northeast until 2017 and is pretty rusty underneath. Frame and suspension bits are rusty, but manageable, I can live with it. Body is thankfully rust-free. The KDSS unit is very rusty and I know I will be rolling the dice as to whether I can crack the screws loose or have a big nightmare on my hands. This LC is priced right about what my LX is worth, so this will be close to an even trade.

I could wait for another non-rusty LC to come along, but part of what's tempting about this one is the price. Most Land Cruisers are priced at least $5k higher than what I could get for my LX. They also only come along once in a blue moon, so if I decide to wait for a better LC, I might be waiting forever. I'm not really willing to increase the budget unless a rig is already built to my taste.

What's your advice?

 

[Tex68w]

I can relate, we had a 2019 LX570 and the entire time we owned it all we could think about is how we should have gotten LC instead. I've owned multiple series of LC's in the past and the more reserved and sporty look and feel of the LC fit our lifestyle and personalities better. Upon the announcement of the end of the 200 Series and the fact that the 300 Series would not be coming to our shores we decided to make the move. I tracked down one of the remaining white and brown LC's (the color combo my wife wanted) in the state and we did the trade and we couldn't be happier with the move. AHC is cool but I never gelled with it and I much prefer the traditional suspension setup. My main gripe with KDSS is how it limits tire size more so than AHC. It'll be interesting to see how the next gen KDSS-E works.

In regards to your dilemma I have to say that I don't like that the LC is rusty underneath, that's hard to combat and reverse. I understand the price is right and it's there, but the rust gives me pause. It's expensive to change a paint color, $3K+ for a vinyl wrap and three times that for paint so I understand the not liking your LX's color. It also appears that you could go for some fresh headlights as well. Should you decide to keep the LX (obviously the easier option) then maybe consider ditching AHC and moving over to a traditional suspension setup? Find a good PDR guy in your area to remove the dings and then have it wrapped? But if a LC is the itch then the only way to scratch it will be to make the move. The question is whether or not that particular LC is the one? Personally I'd look for something with less miles and less rust and find a way to justify the added cost. Good luck with your decision, it's not an easy one and regardless of what you decide you'll be spending money on either end.

 

[tacoduck]

OP, what’s your location? I’ve owned crusty trucks and imo if you take them out of the rust belt, they stop rotting. That said, any suspension maintenance on a rustbelt truck is a real pain in the ass. You will also see body rot that’s been hiding suddenly surface.

End of the day, life is short, and if you prefer the LC, go buy one. Years ago someone on here said, “buy the nicest, least old land cruiser that you can afford”.

 

[Heckraiser]

I'm in Colorado. Not traditionally a rusty state, but CDOT has been amping up their use of magnesium chloride on the roads, so it could definitely get worse.

 

[doru]

Get an LC, pay the "tax" for a good one and live happily ever after.
The trade you describe is a pass in my book. Pay the damed 5k. In one year you'll not remember the 5k just how good it feels to drive you LC.

 

[tbisaacs]

You should do what makes you happy if you have the means! Life is short. At that mileage you are likely needing AHC accumulators. Mine rode like new once I replaced them. Sub-$1000 repair for basically new suspension.

 

[isthatalexus]

My situation was different, but perhaps there is something you can take away from it. I sold the GX470 I poured quite a bit of time and $ into and bought a 200. Always wanted one, and the means were there. The 200 has been (read: had to become) a labor of love, since I did not buy a well cared for model; it did come with tons of aftermarket goodies. In the final evaluation, I should have put lockers on the GX and just stuck with it. Turns out I like more challenging trails, and the added weight and size of the LC make those challenges even more so. I'm super happy w/ the LC now and live without regret; firm hold.

Your situation is different. Assume that you have $3-7k ahead of you to get the LX into shape. Now take the proceeds you think you can get from the sale of the LX, and add the $3-7k. That's your net neutral case. Add a little patience and find an LC without rust, and be ready to pounce with cash. Use autotempest to cast a wide net, and of course keep an eye on MUD classifieds. (I also advocate for LC because KDSS is pretty great for off-road capability.) Finally, if you ever plan on modifying and adding aftermarket bits, those things greatly depreciate once attached to a vehicle...so buying a truck with those add-ons will save you tons of money.

Bottom line: you know what you like, so go for that. Sell the LX. Do the calculation mentioned above. Extend the time horizon of the new purchase so impatience does not cost you money/value/quality/opportunity. Pounce on a solid LC once it presents itself to you. And keep the focus on the sh^t-eating grin you'll be wearing as you drive away from the transaction.

(not professional advice, just hindsight)

 

[TeCKis300]

I can't speak to the subjective as that's a personal decision. It sounds like you're an LC kind of guy and that's an itch that's maybe more important to scratch?

What I can do is offer some info that may help shape your subjective impressions.

Firstly, AHC globes don't degrade in a softening of suspension rate like traditional suspensions. As it wears, rate will likely go up as there's less pneumatic volume in the accumulator. All the way into rupture at which point it'll ride like a brick. The perceived softness can be worn bushings or more likely mods you've added in weight and larger tires/smaller rims.

Your perception of weight is likely right as the LX is 300lbs++ heavier, mostly carried up higher in the cab work. Also consider that it drives heavier because of weight with added mods and lost gear ratio/braking leverage. Mods are a slippery slope many modified car deals with, until it reaches a threshold that it's no longer satisfying to drive.

With any LC, you're likely not going to be satisfied with the stock and/or tired suspension. Consider that as added cost to baseline what you'll want. Or same cost to replace AHC.

As you're looking at a really early model year 2009 LC, it'll be a stripper in comparison to LXs that generally have generally come fully featured since introduction. Here's a potential list I've composed elsewhere that can help in that trade consideration.

Here's potential differences between the LC vs LX. Doesn't break it down by model year. Later model years got some LX trickle downs, but just as many are still LX exclusives. Could be useful to identify which features you really want to compare which model years have the features.

1. More sound deadening (acoustic glass, engine covers, more extensive interior insulation)
2. Powered rear hatch for open/close, also key fob operated (later LCs got this)
3. Soft open rear lower tailgate, with power latching
4. Surround camera system
5. Ventilated/Heated front row (later LCs got this)
6. Mark Levinson Reference (only other model to get the Reference system is the LS) w/surround (19 speakers vs 14, 10" sub vs 8")
7. Power side view mirrors with auto-fold (later LCs got this)
8. AHC - AVS, lift on demand, adjustable and continuous damping logic, anti-dive/roll/squat, leveling, etc.
9. AHC underbody armor
10. Shorter roof rack (LC has a longer roof rack with 3 supports per side)
11. VGRS Variable Gear Ratio Steering (2013+ LC, all LX)
12. Steering headlights (AFS)
13. Projector headlights ('16+ LCs got this)
14. Headlight washers
15. Storage in rear seat armrest
16. Power slide rear seats
17. Second row storage on front seatbacks is a panel vs net
18. 14-way adjustable driver seat vs 10-way LC (passenger 12-way vs 8-way)
19. Adjustable tilt front headrests
20. Power stowage for 3rd row seat
21. Lexus key fob with all windows down by holding remote door open button for 3+ seconds (not sure Toyota's have this?)
22. Fade-To-Off interior lighting (I believe LC got this in 2014?)
23. Puddle and side step lights
24. Door sill lighting
25. Interior ambient lighting
26. Additional trunk side light and open tailgate lighting
27. +2hp / +2tq (requires 91 octane, LC is 87 octane)
28. Semi-aniline leather and more luxurious interior appointments
29. Ventilated second row outboard seats
30. Four-zone climate concierge
31. LED Headlamp with AHS Sequential Turn
32. LED Cornering Lamp
33. 12.3-inch high-res split-screen display (LC 9")
34. Head-up display
35. Steering wheel paddle shifter
36. Door puddle projector lamps
37. Rear door retractable sun shades
38. 2020 gets special trims: "LX570 Sport" to "LC Heritage"
39. Dual screen rear entertainment
40. All-Speed Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (LC DRCC for 25mph and up)
41. Auto air quality air recirculation
42. Variable Ratio Power Steering

 

[Heckraiser]

All fair points. In an effort to fix my low driver front corner, I'm making new AHC sensor brackets with some addtional adjustment range. I just really don't like the idea of relying on techstream to fix/service my suspension. Maybe a counterproductive mindset, but I'm just more of a low-tech guy.

My wife is supportive of whatever choice I make (as long as the final vehicle is not a clapped out hoopty with mold in the carpet), but her preference is to keep the LX. She likes it a lot.

 

[mcgaskins]

My suggestion is whatever you buy, avoid rust like the plague. It's simply not worth dealing with even if you have a shop doing the wrenching.

If it's this one at Stevinson (Used 2009 Toyota Land Cruiser), I would keep looking. It spent at least 8 years in a rusty part of the country and has 2 moderate accidents and is still $27.8k even with 181k miles on it. I have an 08 with 199k on it that lived its whole life in Texas until 3 years ago when I picked it up, and it's completely spotless underneath with zero rust anywhere. I feel vehicle history, maintenance and rust are the most important factors in older 200s, so if you make the jump from LX to LC make sure you get a good one to avoid expensive issues down the line.

 

[Killacaviar]

I have owned both an early model LC and LX both 2010s. Both were purchased simply because of their price, cleanliness and history. Most of the country runs away from rust, especially on Toyotas. You should too...I grew up wrenching on trucks in the North East (My dad owned a repair shop and body shop for most of my childhood in NJ) and the expense and headache of dealing with rusty, broken or seized parts/bolts is very frustrating. Nothing goes as planned...ever

Plus the more you love on your LX and modify it the smaller that gap of differentiators becomes. I had a LC with Kings and now enjoy an LX on AHC with tons of travel and 35s. It took me time and effort to get the LX to the point where I enjoyed it as much as my LC, but it's finally there.

I am also a firm believer that AHC is amazing but, not perfect for me. I will at some point move to a High End Conventional set up, I'm simply in no rush to expedite that just because it does what I ask, every time I drive it.

This is a decision YOU need to make, 27.5 for a rusted 2009 with over 150k is too high. Be patient or aggressive in your search if you make the switch. Finding the right 200 is rarely convenient.

 

[Heckraiser]

Thanks for the input. I'd love to come by and check out your LX some time. Yours is pretty much the peak of moderately modded AHC in my opinion. I'm in Arvada,

 

[Killacaviar]

I am in PA for the rest of June, But we should meet up in July at some point. I am happy to walk you through it all. Good luck man, I almost wasted a tone of cash on an immediate change from the LX back to a LC and then I stuck it out.

 

[nwfl4runner]

I’ll be “that guy” - You won’t crack those KDSS screws and then you’ll be stuck fighting an out of whack system that’s much more difficult to fix than AHC. That would be my biggest fear. I grew up in the rust belt - it’s always worse than it looks…

 

[Madtiger]

I’ll be “that guy” - You won’t crack those KDSS screws and then you’ll be stuck fighting an out of whack system that’s much more difficult to fix than AHC. That would be my biggest fear. I grew up in the rust belt - it’s always worse than it looks…

That is true. Rusted out KDSS screws suck. I would pass on that LC.