HAM and CB install Questions

[Appolyon]

HAM and CB Setup:

So I know that several people have this setup, and I'm interested in doing it to my rig. I'd love advice and some technical help with it.

I am taking my HAM certification test soon, and anyone can use a CB. Some of the people I offroad with have only HAM or only CB, (mostly the latter, because they're too lazy to take the bloody test), so I want to put both on my rig. Right now I'm looking at this gear: Ideas courtesy of Chaldaean's CB antenna install advice, Alvaro's truck pics, Brentbba's K400C lip mount thread, Brentbba's installation with pics, Brentbba's Uniden 510/520 post. These are a great help.... Now on to the list... This is what I'm looking at putting onto my 1991 FJ80 LandCruiser. Currently I have nothing in the second Din, the ashtray is still stock, and I have the OEM roof rack (custom lightbar coming soon though for the front). I cannot drill holes into the roof (and I have a sunroof), and I don't want a mag mounted unit. What's everyone's opinion on the items on this list? I want to mount the HAM on one side of the hatch and the CB on the other side, running the wires up to (in an ideal world)a single din mounted dual function HAM / CB. I'm actually looking at Christo's mod for the Ashtray. Read through the list and let me know.


HAM:
Yaesu FT 2900R
OR
Yaesu FT 8800
Diamond K400C trunk / hatchback mount
Not sure which antenna yet, but I'm thinking about a Comet SBB25 antenna and an 18 inch dual band antenna (Comet SBB1)

CB:
Uniden 510/520
Firestick 4' CB Antenna
K400SNMO Trunk / hatchback Mount
1 FireStik SS3M Stainless Steel CB Antenna Spring SS-3M
1 FireStik R1A External Locking Quick Antenna Disconnect - to remove the antenna when not offroading, or when going into areas where clearance will be an issue. (like a drivethru )

How does that setup sound?

Now here are my questions for all you CB and HAM nuts that know way more about any of this than I do. Firstly, I'm working under the assumption that no one manufactures a radio that broadcasts on both HAM and CB frequencies... If that's not right, please speak up.

1. Would Christo's ashtray CB mount work for me, in my 1991 FJ80?
*EDIT*: *This does not work in FJ80's, only in FZJ80's- The ash tray is too small- I called Slee to find out.*

2. What type of coax should I use (specific brands would be appreciated) to get the cables into the cabin, and then to get to the front center console?

3. Can anyone explain how they ran the coax through the hatch and to the console for the console mounts? (Like what kind of coax did you use to prevent pinching of the connection, and where did you run the cable inside the cab?) I'm trying to keep the interior looking nearly stock... (minus having the antenna mounts on the outside and a CB and HAM mounted in the dash....) PICTURES would be wonderful.

Thanks for your helpful advice.

 

[1911]

HAM:
Yaesu FT 2900R
OR
Yaesu FT 8900
Diamond K400C trunk / hatchback mount
Not sure which antenna yet, but I'm thinking about a Comet SBB25 antenna and an 18 inch dual band antenna (Comet SBB1)

Couldn't go wrong with either if you have the money. The 2900 is a SUPER single-band radio and a great bargain, and all you'd really need for a trail radio unless you just want to spend more or want a dual-band radio for other aspects of the amateur radio hobby. A single-band radio also simplifies your antenna choices.

1. If I have either of those two HAM sets, could they also function as my CB, eliminating the need for me to have 2 radios in my vehicle at one time?

No for a number of reasons; CB is AM and 2M/70CM ham radios are FM, besides not being even close to the 11M band of CB.

1.1. If neither of the radios mentioned above are HAM/CB dual compatible, what radio would do that, if any?

None, for the same reasons as #1. above.

3. What type of coax should I use (specific brands would be appreciated) to get the cables into the cabin, and then to get to the front center console?

Use a good-quality 50-ohm coax for both radios. The feed lines will be short enough that line loss will not be a problem, so any good RG-8 or even RG-58 cable will do. Some more expensive ones have better shielding. Here is a good selection: Coaxial Cable by the foot

 

[Appolyon]

Couldn't go wrong with either if you have the money. The 2900 is a SUPER single-band radio and a great bargain, and all you'd really need for a trail radio unless you just want to spend more or want a dual-band radio for other aspects of the amateur radio hobby. A single-band radio also simplifies your antenna choices.




No for a number of reasons; CB is AM and 2M/70CM ham radios are FM, besides not being even close to the 11M band of CB.




None, for the same reasons as #1. above.




Use a good-quality 50-ohm coax for both radios. The feed lines will be short enough that line loss will not be a problem, so any good RG-8 or even RG-58 cable will do. Some more expensive ones have better shielding. Here is a good selection: Coaxial Cable by the foot

Wow, great answer... sadly i was editing it when you posted... but it'll make sense....

Anyone in a '91 FJ80 attempted Christo's ashtray?

Also, I'm thinking about running the coax in through the door, any suggestions that would prevent the coax from getting crushed/ abused too badly? Any suggestions as to how to run my coax to the front inside the cab unobtrusively (ie. not visible for the most part...) like in the headliner (dangerous territory, I know) or inside of the plastic wall pieces....

 

[rusty_tlc]

There are no legal radios that cover Ham and CB bands.

I have the FT8900, I'd recommend the FT8800 instead, the 6M and 10M bands are fairly worthless for most of us. I like the other features of the radio though and the FT8800 is pretty much the same radio.


I'd go with a cheap CB. I have a Radio Shack unit I got on sale for $30.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Wow, great answer... sadly i was editing it when you posted... but it'll make sense....

Anyone in a '91 FJ80 attempted Christo's ashtray?

Also, I'm thinking about running the coax in through the door, any suggestions that would prevent the coax from getting crushed/ abused too badly? Any suggestions as to how to run my coax to the front inside the cab unobtrusively (ie. not visible for the most part...) like in the headliner (dangerous territory, I know) or inside of the plastic wall pieces....

With a hatch mount you can do the same thin Alvaro did, drill a small hole and snake the coax through the jamb. My 100 had a grommet there already that I used. The rear hatch weather seal is deep enough that the coax won't get mangled.

If you are using a radio with a remote head you can mount the radio inside the rear quarter panel and run the RJ11(?not sure on the designator but it's basically 4 wire phone line) connection up to the front through the wiring chase that runs along the sides of your truck just under the door threshold. There is lots of room in there for extra wires. Just remove the threshold plate and pull the carpet back, you'll see what I'm talking about.

 

[Appolyon]

Alright... Sounds easy enough....

With a hatch mount you can do the same thin Alvaro did, drill a small hole and snake the coax through the jamb. My 100 had a grommet there already that I used. The rear hatch weather seal is deep enough that the coax won't get mangled.

If you are using a radio with a remote head you can mount the radio inside the rear quarter panel and run the RJ11(?not sure on the designator but it's basically 4 wire phone line) connection up to the front through the wiring chase that runs along the sides of your truck just under the door threshold. There is lots of room in there for extra wires. Just remove the threshold plate and pull the carpet back, you'll see what I'm talking about.

My next question is the bugger that is sending me asking around. How do I get power back to that storage area if I do that? I'm 99% certain that my '91 doesn't have a cig lighter plug back there the way that others do...

If I do a din mount, how easy is it to tie into the stereo power and use the car speakers for the output on the HAM? Should I have a pro do it?

Third Question: How much power is this going to consume (HAM and CB)? I'm planning on (mostly) using it while driving. Hence, I want it tied to the stereo power or the central car power so I can't accidentally leave it on (which unknowing people (my parents) have a habit of doing with things (like headlights)).

After all of this, I'm seriously considering having a pro do everything (Slee)....

I am pretty sure I can do the CB myself, and I can mount the antenna and run the cable for the HAM, but I don't know about the install...

Also, tying to above, how did you guys who put the CB anywhere other than in the dash power it? how hard was it to do? (I do computer work, and minor welding... I don't like playing with electricity...

 

[Dan2722]

For both radios you will want to run the power directly to the battery and not through any of your other electrical components or you will not get a clear signal and receive a lot of feedback from your other electronics. Both radios should have an inline fuse already installed by the mfg or you can pick them up and additional wire at Radio Shack.

 

[Kofoed]

My next question is the bugger that is sending me asking around. How do I get power back to that storage area if I do that? I'm 99% certain that my '91 doesn't have a cig lighter plug back there the way that others do...

If I do a din mount, how easy is it to tie into the stereo power and use the car speakers for the output on the HAM? Should I have a pro do it?

Third Question: How much power is this going to consume (HAM and CB)? I'm planning on (mostly) using it while driving. Hence, I want it tied to the stereo power or the central car power so I can't accidentally leave it on (which unknowing people (my parents) have a habit of doing with things (like headlights)).

After all of this, I'm seriously considering having a pro do everything (Slee)....

I am pretty sure I can do the CB myself, and I can mount the antenna and run the cable for the HAM, but I don't know about the install...

Also, tying to above, how did you guys who put the CB anywhere other than in the dash power it? how hard was it to do? (I do computer work, and minor welding... I don't like playing with electricity...

You can run a dedicated, fused wire from the batttery, as somebody else said. Amps multiplied by volts equal watts. So, for a 70 watt amateur radio, it will draw about 6 amps, when TRANSMITTING at full power. You can check the owner's manual online for the power draw. You can size the wire based on the run. 12 gauge should work fine for a run of 17 feet or so. I run my radios on a hot wire, so I can use it with the keys out of it. CB's do not use much power at all.

Regarding the vehicle stereo speakers, it can be done (a friend did it, worked fine) BUT it was only for the CB, not music and CB.

 

[rusty_tlc]

My next question is the bugger that is sending me asking around. How do I get power back to that storage area if I do that? I'm 99% certain that my '91 doesn't have a cig lighter plug back there the way that others do...

If I do a din mount, how easy is it to tie into the stereo power and use the car speakers for the output on the HAM? Should I have a pro do it?

Third Question: How much power is this going to consume (HAM and CB)? I'm planning on (mostly) using it while driving. Hence, I want it tied to the stereo power or the central car power so I can't accidentally leave it on (which unknowing people (my parents) have a habit of doing with things (like headlights)).

After all of this, I'm seriously considering having a pro do everything (Slee)....

I am pretty sure I can do the CB myself, and I can mount the antenna and run the cable for the HAM, but I don't know about the install...

Also, tying to above, how did you guys who put the CB anywhere other than in the dash power it? how hard was it to do? (I do computer work, and minor welding... I don't like playing with electricity...

As others posted you should run a dedicated power wire, but just to be clear you should run a separate circuit for each radio. In receive mode neither radio will draw much power. The CB won't use much during transmit. The Ham will draw a bit. I calculated that I'd need 12G wire so I used 10G, the heavier the wire gauge the lower the voltage drop over long runs.

I ran the power for my FT8900 from the battery through the frame and into the truck through a big rubber plug located in the lower section of the quarter panel. I poked a hole to feed the wire through then sealed around it with RTV. Be sure to fuse the circuits as close to the battery as practical, that way if there is a short the wire insulation won't burn or start a fire.

You can install a relay with the control tied to an ignition hot circuit. I prefer to be able to monitor the radio with the truck off. It's comes in handy when you are waiting for people to show up in camp or a meet location.

Since I rarely use the CB I just stick it on a flat surface with Command Strip hook and loop fasteners and power it with a cig. lighter adapter. In my FJ40 I zip tie it to the roll cage.

 

[Appolyon]

Okay, definitely didn't know about two separate wires... i'll probably run them at the same time then...

I ran the power for my FT8900 from the battery through the frame and into the truck through a big rubber plug located in the lower section of the quarter panel. I poked a hole to feed the wire through then sealed around it with RTV.

RTV is Room Temperature Vulcanization rubber, right? Where would I go about getting that?

I prefer to be able to monitor the radio with the truck off. It's comes in handy when you are waiting for people to show up in camp or a meet location.

That definitely sounds like a plus in my book... I just got around to thinking about that the other day...



What would the difficulties be in mounting the CB inside the armrest/ storage compartment? (It just holds Miscellaneous stuff right now, and i've got a storage box just for that stuff... just needs to be installed...) Would that be feasible if put grates, air filters, and fans in there to cool the CB when I have the lid closed? any problem with that?

 

[1911]

RTV is Room Temperature Vulcanization rubber, right?

Yeah, except nowadays it's all RTV Silicone.

Where would I go about getting that?

Any auto parts store, with the other gasket cements and sealers.

What would the difficulties be in mounting the CB inside the armrest/ storage compartment? (It just holds Miscellaneous stuff right now, and i've got a storage box just for that stuff... just needs to be installed...) Would that be feasible if put grates, air filters, and fans in there to cool the CB when I have the lid closed? any problem with that?

No need for much cooling on a CB, they're only 4 watts of power so they don't generate any significant heat. I run one in my Tuffy center console with no additional venting or cooling, and no problems.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Yeah, except nowadays it's all RTV Silicone.




Any auto parts store, with the other gasket cements and sealers.




No need for much cooling on a CB, they're only 4 watts of power so they don't generate any significant heat. I run one in my Tuffy center console with no additional venting or cooling, and no problems.

I think I used clear silicon bathroom caulk but yeah the auto parts section of Walmart or any Kragen/Autozone type place will have something that should work.

Unless you are a real ratchet jaw a CB should be fine in the center console.

 

[tm7302]

Have you thought about using a handheld CB radio? They're more expensive than the "box" types but require no installation and can be stored in the glove box when not in use. This way you can concentrate on the amateur radio installation. This should result in an overall cleaner interior/exterior appearance with only one radio installed.

 

[Appolyon]

That's a good suggestion... I am getting a HAM handheld for backpacking, but I hadn't thought of handheld CB's.... That's a darn good suggestion...

I just Bing'd it and found the Cobra Road Trip handheld with a magnet mount roof antenna and a DC Charger... sounds perfect... when I don't need it, I'll throw it into the console... very simple... so much less wiring.... Cobra HH RoadTrip... looks perfect and simple... I'm not counting on the CB for range...

For the price of that handheld though, I might as well just go with a permanent setup that gets better reception and remove it when i am not using it... Apparently the Magnet mount external antenna that comes with it is s*** too...

I'm still unsure about what kind of Coax to use... If I'm running it next to live power wires, should I spring for the kind that has the heavier shielding? (from here: Coaxial Cable by the foot)

Last but not least, If I was using the Yaesu 2900R, would the Comet SBB-1 be compatible, even though it's a dual band antenna? I know that the SBB-25 is a single band (2m), but I'm not sure about backwards compatibility...

 

[1911]

I'm still unsure about what kind of Coax to use... If I'm running it next to live power wires, should I spring for the kind that has the heavier shielding?

I would, the extra cost for as little as you would need is minimal.

Last but not least, If I was using the Yaesu 2900R, would the Comet SBB-1 be compatible, even though it's a dual band antenna? I know that the SBB-25 is a single band (2m), but I'm not sure about backwards compatibility...

Yes, it will work fine on either 2M or 70CM. I have one and like it just fine for what it is (short, flexible 1/4-wave on 2M antenna). Good antenna where trees or other clearance are an issue.

 

[rusty_tlc]

That's a good suggestion... I am getting a HAM handheld for backpacking, but I hadn't thought of handheld CB's.... That's a darn good suggestion...

I just Bing'd it and found the Cobra Road Trip handheld with a magnet mount roof antenna and a DC Charger... sounds perfect... when I don't need it, I'll throw it into the console... very simple... so much less wiring.... Cobra HH RoadTrip... looks perfect and simple... I'm not counting on the CB for range...

For the price of that handheld though, I might as well just go with a permanent setup that gets better reception and remove it when i am not using it... Apparently the Magnet mount external antenna that comes with it is s*** too...

I'm still unsure about what kind of Coax to use... If I'm running it next to live power wires, should I spring for the kind that has the heavier shielding? (from here: Coaxial Cable by the foot)

Last but not least, If I was using the Yaesu 2900R, would the Comet SBB-1 be compatible, even though it's a dual band antenna? I know that the SBB-25 is a single band (2m), but I'm not sure about backwards compatibility...

I use a $30 radio shack CB with a DC adaptor and a good Wilson mag mount antenna. The CB is either zip tied to the roll cage or stuck to the dash with Command Strip hook and loop. Since I almost never use CB it isn't worth a permanent install.

I use the SBB-1 and SBB-25 with my FT2800 and my FT8900 (I also have a quad band antenna for the 8900). The SBB-1 is great on the trail, very durable, but it has limited range. On the Highway I use the SBB-25.

 

[Appolyon]

The Uniden PRO510XL with a Wilson 1000 or 5000 looks like the ticket for CB... It's easy to remove, and can move between my vehicles with no effort... (I need to make sure my cig lighters work now...)

I'm still shaky on the coax, but I take it that the LMR 240 / Ultra will work for what I'm trying to do?

 

[1911]

I'm still shaky on the coax, but I take it that the LMR 240 / Ultra will work for what I'm trying to do?

Yep, excellent choice. Anything with 50 ohms impedance will work, and more shielding is mo' betta.

 

[rusty_tlc]

The Uniden PRO510XL with a Wilson 1000 or 5000 looks like the ticket for CB... It's easy to remove, and can move between my vehicles with no effort... (I need to make sure my cig lighters work now...)

I'm still shaky on the coax, but I take it that the LMR 240 / Ultra will work for what I'm trying to do?

I think I have the Radio Shack labeled version of that one. No scan, no PA just a basic radio. Works for me.

 

[Appolyon]

Same one

I think I have the Radio Shack labeled version of that one. No scan, no PA just a basic radio. Works for me.

Ya, rusty_tlc, I am pretty sure that this is the same... I was looking at it on the RS webpage... although it's now $50 instead of $30... it sounds perfect, since I'm hard installing the HAM, and this one can go straight into a storage space when i am done with it....

Uniden Pro510XL

is the Pro520XL worth the $14 more?