Gerotor lube pumps - subject matter expert

Discussion in 'HardCore Corner' started by Peter the OK, Oct 5, 2018.

  1. Peter the OK

    Peter the OK

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    Hey

    2000LC owner and beater here.

    A general note. I am an aerospace engineer who designs lube pumps, cooling pumps and hydraulic flight controls. I LOOVE this forum and plan to spend a bit of time here. I have my own engineering consulting company (Nickerson LLC) and am interested in acting as a technical reference in any way I can - mostly for the internals of the pumps. Most specifically the gerotor lube pump. I am also pretty good with odd hydraulic phenomena if I understand the makeup of the system well enough. I may need help there.

    I have likely seen it all in the category of turbine engine pumps and gearboxes, but I suspect there is a whole host of issues in the automotive world that will tilt my head a little. There are not automatic transmissions, spark plugs, stereos, coil suspensions or pistons in my world.

    I work from home, so I yearn for human contact as well. Pretty good setup for a forum participant. Now I can check something more often than Facebook, I hope.

    Bring it on.
     
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  2. cody c

    cody c

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    How about some pictures of some of the stuff you've worked on. It falls more into the realm of "chit-chat" or an intro thread, but lets see some gerotors.

    On the topic, i think there was a pirate thread where someone integrated one for lubrication into the pinion design of ford 9" rotated to high pinion. Seems way over my head at that point...
     
  3. Peter the OK

    Peter the OK

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    Cody

    Cant share pics of the guts. Gerotors are only made by a select few companies, and they control everyone that works on them with a non-disclosure agreement. I can only share stuff that is already 'in the public domain'. About half the stuff in the air has a gerotor pump, in which case I have worked on it. The other half will have vane pumps - Only worked on a couple. The best I can do is show the lube pump in the F-119 (P&W engine for the F22 Raptor) attached. I circled it in black.

    I posted above to see if there had ever been issue with the lube in the Land Cruiser I could noodle on. I can imagine not, but you never know.

    F119-engine.jpg
     
  4. cody c

    cody c

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    One of those "I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you" sort of things eh?

    Oh well. Wanna scratch up an adapter for a northwest fab NWF Eco box for an 80 series trans/t-case in the interim?
     
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  5. Peter the OK

    Peter the OK

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    Cody

    If anyone has the measurements I can make a print. If it is just an adapter plate with that pilot bore, it could be hogged out of plate aluminum. Might not actually be prohibitively expensive. It looks like an adapter coupling would be needed for the drive if you are looking at any thickness. There would need to be room for it axially.

    No reason I wouldn't branch out a little if there is a need for product like this. I toyed for a while with making aerospace grade replacement components for Porsche folks - they seem to be ready to pay anything, and I can certainly do that. Tagnite coated magnesium strut supports with ringlocked inserts would amount to that much.

    upload_2018-10-23_12-59-37.png
     
  6. cody c

    cody c

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  7. Peter the OK

    Peter the OK

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    Right now, the properties are all over the map.

    MatWeb - The Online Materials Information Resource

    Unfortunately, you need to design for the worst case properties, which means not only using the minimum reasonable yield, but a de-rated value below that based on the highest temperature you are likely to see. One of the advantages of 6061-T6 and WE43B-T6 is that they are so thoroughly and repeatedly tested and the processes are so well understood that you can push a lot higher expectation from the material. Of course, Porsche weenies are much less likely to care than GE.
     
  8. CreeperSleeper

    CreeperSleeper SILVER Star

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    And all of the sudden I am not smart enough to read this thread... :flipoff2:
     
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  9. cody c

    cody c

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    Neither am I, but I can pretend.

    Lots of interesting metals out there, lots of new discoveries, beryllium copper is a neat one. A recent discovery of gold titanium, harder than diamonds the other year. Probably won't hear much about that for two decades, as happens with new alloys and military tech
     
  10. Peter the OK

    Peter the OK

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    beryllium copper is good stuff. They use it in some high-fatigue, high displacement spring applications (feedback springs for servovalves) since the 50s. The aerospace industry is so adverse to change that they only use it where it is necessary. New materials are slow to be used.
     
  11. cody c

    cody c

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    One of my other interests is bolt action rifles, and gunsmithing. I'm not a gunsmith or anything but I enjoy the science of it, and do occasionally get work done.

    One thing I think someone should be building is a titanium receiver with beryllium copper bolt. Titanium is kinda like aluminum or stainless with the galling thing. Beryllium copper is more like bearing bronze and strong as good steel. Apparently when remington made their lightweight titanium actions years ago the bolts never cycled all that well. And in that industry, an ounce or two difference is a magnitude of dollars, not far off the porsche aftermarket I'm sure.

    A good buddy of mine is an engineer designing and building downhole (drilling) tooling, they use titanium and expensive metals and components for high pressure, high temperature drilling mud conditions at the bottom of the well. The tool actually allows/controls drilling fluid to pass by it, creating a pressure pulse, a readable signal at the top of the well, allowing instruments to read what direction its pointed from the tools electronics.


    Yeah this is getting geeky now that I look at my scribbling.



    Edit, my friend who works with downhole tooling works for QCDgroup.ca if your interested in that stuff.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
  12. Peter the OK

    Peter the OK

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    I designed the new homopolar generator they are looking to use for that down-hole system that replaces batteries. For BNI. Has a tungsten flywheel to keep it rolling when a low pressure pulse happens and runs on the high pressure mud. Weird stuff. Had to fill it with oil and seal it so it wouldn't crush - just like the suit in Abyss.

    Id love to whip something like that bolt up. I have never seen anyone use BeCu as a bearing material, but I have knowledge of some kick-ass coatings that prevent galling and are tough tough. I have machining suppliers, but people who work exotic materials are rare. I would need both the bolt and what the bolt fits into to inspect and work a design. Fortunately, if the stuff is for consumer use, I don't need the ISO or AS certification to make parts! The reason I havent gotten into parts is that the cost of entry for those aerospace quality systems is on the order of $300k.
     
  13. Mace

    Mace rock scientist.. Staff Member s-Moderator

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    I'm still waiting for transparent aluminum...
     
  14. cody c

    cody c

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    Star trek reference?

     
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