General military trailer question

[film842]

Been trying to educate myself about these 1/4 and 3/4 ton military trailers for conversion to off road camping and I'm beginning to wonder if it's still a feasible option given what I see for prices out there.

So, here's the question(s): if you buy one of these trailers for off road use, you pretty much have to replace the axles and brakes and suspension, right?

I love the looks of the M416 but with prices running from $1200 to $1800, I wonder if starting fresh with new suspension and a new basic welded frame makes more sense.

Perhaps there's a reason for buying these trailers that I just haven't figured out yet, so if somebody knows what it is, please put me out of my misery. I can be blind as a bat sometimes.

 

[titanpat57]

They (the 416's, Can 101's) were much more affordable when they were $400-$500. The more scarce they become the more valuable they become. Some people are just sold on that size for off road trailering.

Now the M101A2's and the M116A2's are a pretty easy to find, and are pretty cheap. Even with a new tongue and axle, I think you'd be hard pressed to buy material and assemble a trailer for what you can buy them for.

 

[re_guderian]

The only reason to replace the axle, brakes and suspension is a) if they're trashed, and b) to run a matching spare. I found it easier to just carry a second spare specific to the trailer, rather than replace. I like the handbrake feature (though you can get that on an aftermarket axle if you're willing to pay for it). The reason for buying is that they are incredibly overbuilt, and with a little bit of prep (bearings, etc), ready to roll for off-roading. Personally, I sold my 416 and my 716 because i needed more room for what I typically haul, which is either Boy Scout crap for campouts, or yard/household stuff, and they are just a touch on the small side at 39" by 72" to be useful. There needs to be something halfway between the M416/Canadian M101 and the USM101/M1101. The 1/4 tons can also easily be pushed around the house/yard/garage by hand at under 700 lbs empty. The M101's are north of 1300 lbs stock, IIRC.

 

[film842]

Thanks guys for the input, it's helpful. I'm going to research M101A2 owners experiences because that's the size I think I'll want. It will be used for off road camping for the wife and I but nothing really challenging in terms of terrain. Logging roads etc. I'll be pulling it with an '02 Land Rover Discovery that is rated to tow 7700 lbs with brakes. It won't be fast but it should do the job and I'm not in a hurry anyway. I just want to get off road and take it all with me.

 

[greentruck]

There's a 3rd reason people replace the axle on the larger trailers (those bigger than the 1/4 ton variety). These trailers are built to run behind deuce and a halfs, HMMVs, etc typically run the bigger tires/wheels and have really beefy heavy axles. You can shed hundreds of pounds with a new commercial axle and tires matched to your tow vehicle. This makes them a bit more practical.

 

[Josh N]

I have a M101a1. I replaced the original axle because like Mike said above it weighed a metric sh## ton and in my case one of the brake drums was locked up. MD has a restriction on anything with a surge brake so I opted for the earlier trailer without. It also had those gigantic split rim wheels and the old military tires that were dry rotting. Replaced it with a 6k capacity axle with hubs that matched my truck pattern, picked up a pair of matching wheels from the junk yard, redid the lights with normal 12v leds and away I went.

 

[Dell]

There's a 3rd reason people replace the axle on the larger trailers (those bigger than the 1/4 ton variety). These trailers are built to run behind deuce and a halfs, HMMVs, etc typically run the bigger tires/wheels and have really beefy heavy axles. You can shed hundreds of pounds with a new commercial axle and tires matched to your tow vehicle. This makes them a bit more practical.

I have a M101a1. I replaced the original axle because like Mike said above it weighed a metric sh## ton and in my case one of the brake drums was locked up. MD has a restriction on anything with a surge brake so I opted for the earlier trailer without. It also had those gigantic split rim wheels and the old military tires that were dry rotting. Replaced it with a 6k capacity axle with hubs that matched my truck pattern, picked up a pair of matching wheels from the junk yard, redid the lights with normal 12v leds and away I went.

^ ...old I know. But...

I feel both of these comments are of disservice to the facts/reality regarding.

Historically speaking...
One would see more of these 1/4T trailers hauled behind a wee mbt jeep or like...
and less commonly a deuce, half or other larger military haulers.
Did it need be capable ? sure... but that wasn't the primary criteria/goal.

The axle's additional weight/strength was engineered into it's original design...
to off set the chassis's/tub's higher COG... as well to offer undeniable strength and reliability.
Realize the axle's engineering was done in preparation for the battle field.
and that was years back when things were built solid and dependable.
^ overkill or over engineered... pick one.

Proof is in the fact that many of the trailers built during the 2nd war
are still rolling their original components (yep same axle)
to this date.

Weak axles and a trailer that could roll over/flop too easily...
would be useless on a military battle field.

The 1/4 military trailers were engineered correctly back in the day...
Why do some folk seem to think their expertise and knowledge
is better then what the original engineers concluded ?

There are many reasons to change the axle...
But the comments above... are not proper science or thinking...
and IMO is misleading to others whom might read thru.

An axle's heavier un-sprung weight is actually helpful, maybe even desirable,
in keeping the COG weight low and reducing the chance of flopping on uneven terrain.
^ (axle, hubs, tires/wheels, etc.)

sprung weight is the load above the springs... (springs, frame, box, cargo, etc...
and that is where weight loss need occur... not at the axle.

 

[Josh N]

Your comments are about the 1/4 ton trailers. Both that you quoted (Greentruck and Mine) are specifically about the 3/4 ton trailers, which had a few variations that all lead to specific considerations when using them as civilians.

My trailer is a M101a1. It had parking brakes only and mine were locked up tight on one side. I bought the a1 model because MD restricts the use of surge brakes (the road brakes on the a2 and later trailers) to boat trailers only.

The 3/4 trailers are also just that, 3/4 ton trailers. The bodies are made to take abuse and are heavy and the road brakes on the later models are robust but the exles and springs are still 3/4 trailer axles not 1940s over engineered monstrocities that would last 100yrs. I am also not trailering under combat conditions which no one here is even if they think they are tacticool.

By changing the axle I did lighten the overall empty weight of the trailer by a crap ton because I lost the gigantic parking drum brakes and the 37 inch tires on 16 inch split rim wheels. I gained a higher weight capacity axle, gained matching hubs for my truck, actually widened the stance a little (to the same width as the a3 version which was widened to match the hmmwv stance) and have a smoother rolling trailer. You would be hard pressed to flop one of these anyway since they are about 7 feet wide and settle down fast with any load in them. If you are driving in conditions that would flop one you are doing something wrong anyway.

The M105 trailers are even wider and heavier and meant to tow behind: 2.5, 3, 5, and 7 ton trucks. Pretty much none of us in Land Cruisers should be pulling these heavy beasties anyway since they weigh 2,650 lbs empty.

All of the equipment was overbuilt for WW2 because the technology of the time required it. If the B17 was built today it would be faster lighter and less prone to taking the abuse it did and still landing safely. So not really sure what you think was ignored or why you would comment that I think I am smarter than the engineers, but I spent 20+ years towing these on active duty and know the limits of them better than a good number of folks but we aren't talking rocket science and we aren't talking about the same kind of trailer anyway.

 

[greentruck]

Yeah, as Josh noted, my comments were in reference to the 3/4 ton trailers. I've got a M101 CDN and I agree, no real strong reason to change the axle if it's otherwise suiting your needs. There's not much to gain weight-wise by doing so, unlike with the 3/4 ton trailers.

However, I do plan on eventually swapping the factory axle for a different one that is a braked axle. The main reason for this is economic. You can get the entire Dexter axle including the electric brakes with provision for a parking brake for about what it would cost for just parts to add electric brakes to the original axle. I'd just rather unbolt the nasty old axle and roll a new one under the trailer.

 

[wngrog]

If you plan on swapping the axles, wheel pattern, height, cutting the box off, etc etc......just start from scratch