FSM vs ESM CD on ebay..experience? (1 Viewer)

[drohweder]

Call me a cheap bastid but $15 but a CD vs $95 for a paper FSM seems like a no brainer.

Anyone have any experience with these electronic FSMs being sold on CD. There are a bunch on the ebay. Are they complete and simply a pirated FSM? Or should I stay away!!!

I am needing some type of FSM for my 97 fj80. Thanks in advance.

 

[NorCalDoug]

I've read of a few who were happy with the CD, but most seem dissatisfied.
The FSM is the way to go.
There is a site that allows you to download the FSM -- there are a few list members who have done so. It's my understanding that it's the same FSM, only in electronic format. The catch is that it's a subscription site.

What some have done, however, is that they've paid the $10 for the shortest term of the subscription and then downloaded the entire FSM. This has been reported to be a major PITA, but is doable. I've been meaning to do it, but can't seem to reserve a several hour block for downloading and organizing the downloaded files.

Here's a current thread with site info:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=36841

Another thread:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=23939

Another one:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=13741

 

[drohweder]

Prolly should just buy the FSM and put it in the preventative maintenance column!

Guy has pretty good feedback on ebay but paper is probably better.

 

[CharlieS]

If you're cheap like me, the $10 subscription is a good deal. I downloaded it all, FSM, ESM, collision repair manual, TSBs.

[Note: If you do download it, take the advice I found on this board and uninstall Adobe acrobat first. That way you can just save the PDF files without opening them up first - it is much, much faster that way. Reinstall the acrobat reader when you are finished and you are in business. Also take the time to create a directory structure which matches the online layout of the manual.]

Now I have a copy on my computer, and will soon burn a CD so I have a good backup in case my computer ever has problems. In addition, I put it on a USB memory stick and now have it whenever I need it. It becomes very portable like that.

With the electronic version, I can print it out as I need pages, and not worry about ruining them.

I doubt the Ebay dude is on the up and up. He is probably selling a copy of data he ripped from Toyota's site. Creative, but also very illegal. I wouldn't participate in the theft of intellectual propery, much less encourage the illegal behavior.

Charlie

 

[e9999]

I looked into this.
There are several versions out there. Some are generic cheapo manuals that they claim covers the LC but are in reality not from Toyota.
There is also CDs out there that appear to have been downloads from the Toyota site. A friend got one. Took him 3 tries to get the right year, the seller kept sending the wrong "manuals". He gave up and ended up without the EWD. Keep also in mind that you'll get hundreds of files, all with incomprehensible names, and that pdf searches will not easily find what you need... Cheap but cumbersome basically. OTOH, it's great to have it on a laptop with you...

 

[drohweder]

I doubt the Ebay dude is on the up and up. He is probably selling a copy of data he ripped from Toyota's site. Creative, but also very illegal. I wouldn't participate in the theft of intellectual propery, much less encourage the illegal behavior.

Charlie

So you won't sell me a copy of the CD you burned. That sounds like a great way to go but getting it that way sounds painful...especially with my computer being on the fritz right now.

If I subscribe (give the money to the rightlful people) will you then sell me a copy of your CD and save me the hassel??? Crazy request but the worst you can say is no.

Got a web site for the downloads?

 

[Scamper]

I bought a CD version of the FSM for my Spyder on eBay. Later I needed info on my Avalon, so I went to techinfo.toyota for a quick download... while there, I chedked out the Spyder stuff. Lo and behold, what I had purchased on eBay was identical to what I found on the toyota site. So what these guys are doing is to download the stuff from toyota and resell it. It's illegal...

Not only that, but the way you get the info on CD is by cryptic file names that are not indexed. I downloaded (legally) the files that constitute the manuals for my Avalon and the EWD for the LC. But to make them reasonably useful, you need to merge them into logical sections. For example, you may end up downloading 150 files for the tranny--each of 1-2 pages. To make them really useful, you need to use the full version of Acrobat and merge these files in the correct order into what you would have in the FSM. I would go nuts trying to find things if I had only Acrobat Reader--you'd have to open file after file to find anything.

That being said, the PDF version of the manuals are nice to have. You can print them out and crap all over them, then have a clean version the next time you need it. Can't say the same about my paper FSMs...

Just be aware of what you're going to get, and how difficult you will find using it. If you're still interested in ithe CD version, it might be more desirable to download it yourself legally, then reassemble the FSM in sections.

 

[drohweder]

OK. So I reviewed all the threads and noticed that RavenTai did some considerable work and put in lots of time to make this a usable digital manual. Looks like way more time that I will have for some time.

Ethical question: Is it wrong to pay an individual for his time and effort they took to compile this information IF I subscribe to the site and pay to access the toyota website. Hence, I have purchased access to all the information yet have obtained it in a format not offered by them.

The owner of said intellectual property (Toyota motor company) is paid and the effort of one compensated for the work to put it in a desirable format at a savings to the paper FSM offered only by Toyota.

What say yee.......

 

[Scamper]

Dan-

I personally would feel that I had not done anyting illegal under the conditions you state. But don't be too confident that you're going to get something like an FSM on CD. I sure as hell didn't. Despite Raventai's post, I found I could download all of the FSM and EWD files in about 2-3 hrs total (broadband connection). It took maybe another 30 mintues to consolidate and organize the files in to sections (e.g., Front Axle, Engine, Tranny, Transfer, etc.). But I now have what I feel is an organized version that is pretty usable. You can do this with the CD contents, but you're then doing the work that you thought you were paying some guy to do for you...

 

[97 FZJ80]

The PDF files from the Toyota site are a scanned version of the actual FSM. It is in a lower resolution and can be difficult to read sometimes. It was an issue for me for the BF repack sections. I actually had to verify a couple of items on the pdf printout with my paper FSM.

 

[CharlieS]

drohweder,

As much as I'd like to help, I do not feel comfortable sharing what I downloaded. It is a clear violation of the license agreement that I accepted when I went on the Toyota site.

I might be overly uptight about this, but I work in the software industry and intellectual property theft is a major issue.

If you don't have the time or the inclination to do it yourself, contact CruiserDan and buy the paper version of the FSM direct from Toyota. He'll give you the best price going, and he's on the up and up, unlike many ebay cd maual sellers.

Charlie

 

[drohweder]

drohweder,

As much as I'd like to help, I do not feel comfortable sharing what I downloaded. It is a clear violation of the license agreement that I accepted when I went on the Toyota site.

I might be overly uptight about this, but I work in the software industry and intellectual property theft is a major issue.

If you don't have the time or the inclination to do it yourself, contact CruiserDan and buy the paper version of the FSM direct from Toyota. He'll give you the best price going, and he's on the up and up, unlike many ebay cd maual sellers.

Charlie

I understand. I view it that if I pay toyota for the access then paying you for your time (retrospectively) for the info available on the site I subscribed to is not a violation of copyright laws.

Guess its one of those shades of grey in life.

I'll take the time to do it when I really need it.