Four Peaks Road (1 Viewer)

ChaseTruck

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We're planning to ride up to Four Peaks a little later today. Just up to the top, and come back down the same way.

If anyone's interested, we (Claudia and myself in the Blazer - it's too hot in the '40...) will be at the Ba'ja gas station at 12:30, leave at 1pm.
 
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Nice day to be out on the trail, only saw a few others, too hot maybe, but was nice at the top. Went to the shoulder, then along the ridge, FR422?
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There are a few of these signs, about time!:cool: Don’t know how long they have been there, but don’t look to be that effective. They have fenced and marked closed more of the areas we cleaned, some of the fences are cut, others there is shooter junk on the far side of the fence.:mad:
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splitshot

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Idiots!

Three Bar right?
I love that area, cruised through there on the way back from Payson (I had the '72, 40 at the time), A Long Time Ago..
 
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splitshot

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I think the Game and Fish calls it that, they have done alot of studies out there. Basically covers the Apache Trail south of the Dam Westward (including the Four peaks area).

Being in the plant biz, lot's of cool vegetation in the area that you don't find elsewhere.
 

ChaseTruck

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This one was cool - about a mile in from the Fr11 intersection with FR143, just about where we passed the guys with the quads...

Oh yeah, and by the way: we filled up a big black bag with trash in no time :mad:.
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LandCruiserPhil

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There are a few of these signs, about time!:cool: Don’t know how long they have been there, but don’t look to be that effective. They have fenced and marked closed more of the areas we cleaned, some of the fences are cut, others there is shooter junk on the far side of the fence.:mad:

I saw the signs within a month after our clean up - At that time I wonder if the clean up helped
 
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Hey not ALL shooters do that. Used to go out there and pick up WAY more brass, "targets" :rolleyes: , and shell casings than I used. You know, being responsible...

Personally I hate seeing this... What is so hard about picking up after yourself, especially something like brass shell casings. It's just stupid, especially since there are people out there that will BUY clean brass for money.

It's just dumb.
 
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Hey not ALL shooters do that. Used to go out there and pick up WAY more brass, "targets" :rolleyes: , and shell casings than I used. You know, being responsible…

I agree that there are some (a couple maybe?) of responsible shooters, I own a safe full of guns and when I have shot them always brought home bags of trash. After the Feb cleanup I was very disappointed,,, :mad::eek::mad:, talked/showed pix to a bunch of gun professionals that populate this complex, including a S&W rep. Got the same old story about how gun owners are great “outdoors men” that do everything they can to preserve our public lands. It common to use tarps under the targets and at the shooting position, so everything can be simply picked up and carried home. Ether they are very naive, don't get out much or are living in denial.:mad:

Talked to a long term buddy who lives guns, is a big wheel in a local club, does tons of gun work, tried to get him to start a thread on the local forum about the problem. His reply was basically that no one wants to hear that s*** and it’s not that big of a problem. So went to some forums, searched, found lots of good gun mods, shooting tips, a couple that were pissed because their favorite shooting spot had been closed, etc. Nothing about cleanups, techniques for minimizing impact, etc.

In the wheelin world, it’s hard to open a magazine, go to vendor sites, etc, without seeing Tread Lightly, pack out, now days poop in a bag and haul out, etc. So grabbed a stack of gun magazines from next door, went through them, didn’t see anything about taking care of shooting sites, etc. IMHO the decision has to start from the top, in my experience the ones that I have talked to are too busy making quick $$$ right now to worry about it.

I would like to think different, but the evidence is on the ground, easily viewable. I get out as often as possible and have never seen a shooter using a tarp,,, EVER! In fact they have the capacity to carry all manor of huge junk out there and place it way out on a hill for all to see and ZERO capacity to haul anything home, toss the beer cans, shell boxes and everything else on the ground and leave it for someone else to deal with. If the shooting community gave a s*** some things would be very easy to fix, like targets, they could easily be made with water soluble binder and paint so they would disappear after a rain, instead of brightly painted terracotta that’s a blotch on the landscape for years.

Sorry, but shooters get grouped, just like wheelers (responsible or not) get grouped into ORV. Believe me would like to be proven wrong, would love to see a trend where shooters cleanup their act, organize or even attend cleanups in significant numbers, etc. But until then I’m calling a spade a spade; IMHO shooters are one of if not the biggest threat to our continued use of public lands.:eek:
 
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...
Personally I hate seeing this... What is so hard about picking up after yourself, especially something like brass shell casings. It's just stupid, especially since there are people out there that will BUY clean brass for money.

It's just dumb.

Agreed, it's, dumb, stupid, ignorant, preventable, etc.

On Monday after viewing the destruction of our hard work, I went to lunch at a burger joint. Across was a couple of teen-early twenties looking young men and an older couple (grandparents maybe?), the kids were talking about shooting. The older gentleman was questioning their practices, they were explaining that they shoot with a couple of ex military guys that were training them well. Then he asked if it was legal to shoot there, the kid says, it’s out in the desert, public land where the laws don’t apply. The other kid said that a few months ago somebody removed everything, could see picking up the brass because it’s worth money, but they took away all of the targets, junk, etc. The other kid says, no big problem, we just brought more targets (junk) on the next trip.

By this time I’m a bit :mad:, about ready to open my mouth and make an ass, when a customer of mine came in and the other group left.
 

splitshot

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I feel your pain Kevin, these bastids just don't give a ****, and make all us responsible folks look bad.
Sad thing it is, I don't see it's going to change with the mentality out there..:frown:
 

murf

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Well said Kevin, my dad and I go target shooting as well and it never ceases to amaze me the total lack of disregard some of these individuals show. Not raised right or something....:eek:

Poeple will actually take large tube tvs and crt monitors and shoot them up and walk away. We always pack more out than we brought in t seems. My dad says "Sometimes its hard to stay ahead of the sea of idiots".

I think you hit on an excellent point I havent thought of before is the constant shooters mantra of "clean up" in mags, shows, etc that will place some slight bit of thought into some of these pea brains. I agree that would be enough to get some of them to feel guilty or? and clean up. Then you have the percentage that just dont give a s*** and will cry the loudest when their shooting area is shut down.

When you heard those kids talking, I bet you had steam coming out of your ears. Maybe their grandpa needs to get his paddle board back out and teach some sense!:idea:
 
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How much was removed during this years clean up? 20 + tons if I remember correctly...It's a F-ing shame that we aren't moving forward from this place.

:mad::mad::mad:
 

murf

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At the same time groups like us probably keep it cleaned up enough, or show enough responsibility to keep the land open?! Just think if there were never clean ups - you'd never be able to pull off the road and the land would be closed for sure by now.

Frustrating indeed but we should not let that stop us! I'm looking forward to this years Fossil springs clean up....still happening, right?
 
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At the same time groups like us probably keep it cleaned up enough, or show enough responsibility to keep the land open?! Just think if there were never clean ups - you'd never be able to pull off the road and the land would be closed for sure by now.

Frustrating indeed but we should not let that stop us! I'm looking forward to this years Fossil springs clean up....still happening, right?

Agreed, but it still sucks that cleanups are necessary and that the areas are trashed so quickly after.

Yep, Fossil springs clean up = September.
 
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I fully agree. Target shooting is a real and honest sport. It should be allowed in any really safe area. It is up to target shooters to choose targets wisely.
It is tempting to shoot at things that go "BANG!" But pottery, glass, and such items tend to break up and wash into streams where they present hazards to kids playing in the creeks. They are also nearly impossible to clean up when the shooting is done. They are not acceptable as targets.
Metal and plastic targets don't offer the same bang, but they are also reuseable. Most of the shot-up parts can be put into trash bags and removed. It is best to remove any targets in any case. This is not possible with glass or pottery. Those kinds of items are not acceptable as targets.
As in every other kind of outdoor activity, if you can't remove every trace of your trash, you are trashing my place and the place that should be there for your children. Whether you are a camper, a wheeler, a shooter, or hiker, you have no right to trash our natural places. Pack in-pack out! Clean up your own mess! Leave it the way you found it. If you can't clean up, you don't belong there.
Your mom taught you that if you drop something in the home, you pick it up. If you spill something, you clean it up. The same rules apply in the forest. If we all follow Mom's advice, we will all get along fine!
Clean up your own mess!
 
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Along with all the reasons stated by others, I also think this really correlates to population growth. More people = more idiots!! I have many fond memories as a kid having picnics, bbq's, four wheeling, and target shooting in these places with my family and now I don't even consider them anymore. We ALWAYS cleaned up afterwards, my dad was a sticker on that sort of thing.
I disagree a little with Kevin, in that I think the ATVs are the worst. At least you can clean up after the shooters (not giving them a pass though). My brothers and I did boy scout eagle projects with the Forest Service trying to replant some of these areas. These places still don't look back to "normal" nearly 20 years later.
We will just keep going farther and farther just to have a quite afternoon in the desert. It makes me sick!
 

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