Fossil Creek

[BrotherRob]

It looks like another group is doing a cleanup on Sept 19 and 20, the week before we usually plan our clean up. Its great to see others helping out but this will likely negate the effectiveness of our efforts. We should consider, a)planning a clean up to the same weekend and pooling our efforts, b)moving our cleanup to a different time or site so that we can have a greater impact.


Here's a link for more information:

View Event

 

[Blues Dawg]

uhh...have you checked out thier website? It would be interesting to team up with them. They are knid of anti-offroad vehicle. We could probably educate them that they are in fact some responsible people who enjoy offroad activities without damaging the environment - that is until some drunken yahoo comes crashing thru the camp on fire on an atv...

<foresttravelmgmt>

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

uhh...have you checked out thier website? It would be interesting to team up with them. They are knid of anti-offroad vehicle. We could probably educate them that they are in fact some responsible people who enjoy offroad activities without damaging the environment - that is until some drunken yahoo comes crashing thru the camp on fire on an atv...

<foresttravelmgmt>

Uh... last year it was the Sierra Club also a kinda anti-offroad group and they were very pleasant all things considered.

 

[splitshot]

To bad ORV groups have been stereotyped as being in that Bud Light can tossin' bunch. This would be a good idea.

 

[brittan]

I agree that we should team up with them...it would build our relationship with them. When we show up at the same meetings on different sides of the table we can say, "Remember that night we spent on Fossil Creek? My kids played with you dogs. You made jokes about my BIG tires and I made jokes about your hairy armpits. Why can't we all just get along?" I think they are against ATC's...not LC's.

 

[BrotherRob]

Uh... last year it was the Sierra Club also a kinda anti-offroad group and they were very pleasant all things considered.

Agreed, when it comes to the type of event we are all on the same side. I saw this under the Volunteers for Outdoor Arizona website. I've lurked on VOAZ's site for a while. They seem to be a pretty beneign service group. The event is being sponsered by Arizona Wilderness Coalition which seem to believe that if you can't walk you should stay indoors.

I'm not sure we would be welcomed with open arms but working alongside these folks could be good PR. I hope their timing is just a coincidence, but it pretty much renders our event moot unless we make some changes.

 

[FJ40LVR]

Agreed X 4 - breaking down steroetypes on both sides would be in our best interest's...

 

[Tools R Us]

I agree, so the cleanup date is Sept 19. IMHO we should just show up and do our thing, worked well last year?

 

[murf]

I think that would be a good idea, agree with all of the above. With 2 groups we could really do a bang up job and hopefully help open up some perceptions. They are anti-ATV for sure but do support hunting and fishing due to the fact they recognize that the biggest supporters ($548 million last year alone) for wildlife in our state are our hunters and fishermen.

Looks like a passionate group but not frothing-at-the-mouth passionate. I think we can get along without too much rolling around in the dirt.




Does this mean I shouldn't bring a case of Bud Light?

EDIT: Is this usually a one day affair or an over nighter....? Do we need trailers to haul out trash bags or does the forest service provide dumpsters?

 

[Tools R Us]

...
EDIT: Is this usually a one day affair or an over nighter....? Do we need trailers to haul out trash bags or does the forest service provide dumpsters?

It's a Saturday event, but a large percentage camp overnight. Some of us do a trail on the way home.

 

[copperone]

I would definately be in for helping with a clean up regardless of whos doing it....

 

[Brian Macgyver]

Maybe we should plan a week before theirs? We could clean up, and negate them! Is it so hard to move our date this far in advance?
I don't really mean to be in a competition, but if the environmental groups find less litter, they have less reasons to close an enjoyable area to the public. If we clean up before they get there, they have fewer excuses to ruin a great area for the rest of us on the grounds of over-littering.
Let's just get there first! We can clean up, and deny them the litter and pics that they need to keep us and others out. We know that this is their main desire.
We may well have the same goal, but we have very different ways of reaching it. We want to clean up and educate. Most of them just want to confine us in cities, and reserve the wilderness for animals. That is not acceptable.

 

[Brian Macgyver]

I am all for working hand-in-hand with the environmentalists. Or I would be if they weren't at cross purposes with us.
We have a deep desire to keep public lands open for responsibile users. They have a deep desire to close everything that is not paved. We are focused on education and clean-up, while they are focused on finding excessive litter as a reason to close public places.
There are many really beautiful places that the public deserves access to. They certainly should not litter. They also should not be denied access. Education would reduce litter. The tax-payers own the land. It is not the domain of the tree-huggers and druids. They do not own it. We do!
We pool our money via taxes, so that we can own the land.
They have no more right to deny us access to our public lands than they have to tell us how to use our own homes, or what bedroom we choose to sleep in. As taxpayers, we own those lands. We are the people, and we own the forest. It is ours.

 

[BrotherRob]

Sooo.....some of them have demonized us, so we should do the same to them? Then we can all continue to butt heads into oblivion?

Sorry, I prefer setting a more positive example.

 

[murf]

With this CSC group, by the time were done charming them we'll have them ready to go wheelin'!



"He that wrestles with us strengthens our nerves, and sharpens our skill. Our antogonist is our helper."

--- Edmud Burke