Foam insulation vs blown in

[Jupiter Judy]

We are building a new house in N. Texas. We have some severe temps both lows and highs. However they don’t last long. Our builder wants to use closed cell and open cell insulation in the build. We want a high efficiency wood fireplace and everyone says “no way”. I am wondering if we just used foam insulation on West and south walls and blown-in everywhere else, if the wood burning fireplace will work. We are rural and the only other choice for us is propane. We are not a fan!

 

[Rusty 72]

We built a new house 3 years ago. The builder used open cell spray foam. It stops a lot of the airflow but the cold will migrate through the walls.

The house we moved from was about 10 years old. Walls had fiberglass batts, ceiling was blown in. Walls were R 21, ceiling was R 50. Both were total electric, old house was about 50 sq ft larger. We use a little more kwh's per month in the new house.

 

[ferg]

We live in SEOK , in an old double-wide(yep) and use a wood stove as primary heat. This dump has 3/8" drywall and fiberglass batting for insulation. It works just fine. If you are building, use spray foam as your insulation. Way better than fiber, blown in chunks, or roll insulation. It's also quieter than the other stuff.

 

[snobdds]

I have only used the closed cell spray foam in a cabin that's around 9500 feet, so cold is my extreme. No foam company wanted to go up there and do the job so I am doing it with the 2 part kits and doing it in phases as I complete new sections. So far I have done the floor from below, it's on piers. I wanted a thermal break and a total seal to keep critters and bugs out. It was messy, probably the messiest job I've ever done and I was fully suited up.

The results were great. Closed Cell Spray foam adds four things...thermal break, vapor barrier, insulation r value, and racking rigidity strength. Obviously the floor sounded hollow before and now it sounds like a solid floor. The difference between a chevy car door and a Mercedes car door closing. We elk hunted out of it this past fall and although we just had the floor done, you could tell the floor was not allowing ground moisture to come up. The dogs slept on the floor and the past year they had to huddle around the wood stove, this year they were spread out throughout because the floor was warm.

I been told by many people, closed cell is the way to go because of its vapor barrier properties and its resistance to water deterioration, properties open cell does not.

 

[Bob Morazes]

Its tough to tell if a fireplace will do the job for you w/o knowing the size and layout of the house. if you have high ceilings most of your heat will be headed up there unless you have ceiling fans.
I'm not familiar with high efficient fireplaces. I put and insert in mine that blows the hot air into the room. It works fine if your infront of the fireplace, but the air just doesn't move to the far side of the house. ie the kitchen stays cold.
A wood stove in the room has the advantage for providing alot of surface area thats hot, so you get more bang for your buck.

I have two homes, one in MD and one in VA. both in mild temperature areas with maybe a week of 0 degree weather. and have a Yukon dual fuel furnace. Your Wood Furnace Company
Unfortunately the EPA regulations have prohibited US sales until they can get the testing done.
I like them because you can use wood as your prime heat source, but if your not home, or too lazy to stock the wood side, your alternative heat source, oil, gas, elec. kicks in.

Can you post a link to the fireplace your looking at?
Bobmo

 

[Jupiter Judy]

Its tough to tell if a fireplace will do the job for you w/o knowing the size and layout of the house. if you have high ceilings most of your heat will be headed up there unless you have ceiling fans.
I'm not familiar with high efficient fireplaces. I put and insert in mine that blows the hot air into the room. It works fine if your infront of the fireplace, but the air just doesn't move to the far side of the house. ie the kitchen stays cold.
A wood stove in the room has the advantage for providing alot of surface area thats hot, so you get more bang for your buck.

I have two homes, one in MD and one in VA. both in mild temperature areas with maybe a week of 0 degree weather. and have a Yukon dual fuel furnace. Your Wood Furnace Company
Unfortunately the EPA regulations have prohibited US sales until they can get the testing done.
I like them because you can use wood as your prime heat source, but if your not home, or too lazy to stock the wood side, your alternative heat source, oil, gas, elec. kicks in.

Can you post a link to the fireplace your looking at?
Bobmo

Our home will be open plan and central heating system will be used. My issue is wanting a wood burning fireplace in a tightly insulated home. I would like it to keep the room warm and not be Smoky. The pros say it will fill the room with smoke. That’s the only reason I’m considering blown -in insulation. We don’t like the health negatives using propane
fireplace. Looking at Northstar 36 inch by heatnglo. It’s more money than I wanted to spend.

 

[Bob Morazes]

Here is my semi educated guess.
On my wood furnace, I have a 4" flex pipe that supplies outside air to the wood stove. I was told that without it the stove tries to take the available air in the house and when it doesnt get enough it begins to smoke. ie incomplete burning.
It looks like your northstar will have the same problem unless it gets some supply air from outside.
Look at page 16 of the installation manual:

Northstar Wood Fireplace

Embrace intense flames and high-efficiency heating.

www.heatnglo.com

This should eliminate any excess smoke.
I noticed an ask the pros, button on their website, and it might be good to pose this question to them.
Bobmo

 

[Jupiter Judy]

Here is my semi educated guess.
On my wood furnace, I have a 4" flex pipe that supplies outside air to the wood stove. I was told that without it the stove tries to take the available air in the house and when it doesnt get enough it begins to smoke. ie incomplete burning.
It looks like your northstar will have the same problem unless it gets some supply air from outside.
Look at page 16 of the installation manual:

Northstar Wood Fireplace

Embrace intense flames and high-efficiency heating.

www.heatnglo.com

This should eliminate any excess smoke.
I noticed an ask the pros, button on their website, and it might be good to pose this question to them.
Bobmo

What we’ve been told is that foam insulation makes the house too tight for any wood burning fireplace. We will sacrifice the foam in order to have wood burning. I wonder if we could just foam in the west and south walls. I wonder if that could be an option.

 

[Prairie Swamp]

Our home will be open plan and central heating system will be used. My issue is wanting a wood burning fireplace in a tightly insulated home. I would like it to keep the room warm and not be Smoky. The pros say it will fill the room with smoke. That’s the only reason I’m considering blown -in insulation. We don’t like the health negatives using propane
fireplace. Looking at Northstar 36 inch by heatnglo. It’s more money than I wanted to spend.

I've heated with wood full time for 13 years. A properly installed system will not fill the house with smoke or leave a noticeable smoke smell. If your house is super super airtight (different than being really well insulated) then the stove may starve for air as Bob mentions. But should still not fill the house with smoke.

If you are concerned that your house is very airtight then get the external combustion kit as Bob mentions. This is also a bonus in that you are not taking heated air from inside the house and sending it up the flue.

I have a drafty old farmhouse so do not have the external air kit.

Just make sure your install is 100% up to code and the manufacturer's recommendation, especially in regards to the flue. I highly highly recommend that your flue be a 100% straight pipe right through the roof. No bends whatsoever. If so you are asking for trouble. Poor chimney install/design is the #1 cause for smoke in the house.

Good luck.

 

[Prairie Swamp]

What we’ve been told is that foam insulation makes the house too tight for any wood burning fireplace. We will sacrifice the foam in order to have wood burning. I wonder if we could just foam in the west and south walls. I wonder if that could be an option.

The external combustion air option that Bob and I mention completely eliminates the issue. You can use foam 100% is you get the outside air option.

 

[snobdds]

Yep, you need an outside air kit.

 

[1911]

The closed-cell foam is the best insulation I have ever seen. Used it in my new shop building that we are currently living in (also in north Texas BTW), and once the heat comes up to the thermostat setting, it takes forever to go back down. When it's below freezing at night, it takes all night long for the apartment to cool from 71 degrees down to 62. I have to lower the thermostat hours before bedtime so that it might start cooling off to sleep. In the summer, my wife likes it ice cold (I have to put a fleece jacket on) and our electric bill maxes out at $90, usually more like $60 or less. But, we do not have a fireplace, so I don't have an opinion there. The apartment is super air tight.

Out in the shop space, I get no moisture condensation at all. In my last shop that had rolled fiberglass batting, water was always condensing on everything and any parts left laying out would rust.

I am really sold on the closed-cell spray foam.

 

[Jupiter Judy]

We must be the abnormal Texas resident. I open my windows all spring and Fall. We are saying NO to propane fireplace. We like wood and have plenty of oaks on property. So far the fireplace “experts” are saying we can’t have spray foam insulation and wood fireplace.(even with an air kit). If push comes to shove, the fireplace wins. I’m sad though because it sounds like a big energy savings when I can’t keep my windows open. The good news is that there are so many toxins within the home we will have some outside air creeping in. Ha.

 

[snobdds]

What's their reasoning for not being able to use a wood stove with a fully sealed spay foamed house?

A fully sealed home should have a passive fresh air system, regardless if wood burning is the primary heat source. Fresh air in the house is just a good idea to not let the air get stagnant. Plus you don't want a negative vacuum in the house or things like water heaters and stove hoods will back draft instead of going out.

Something like this would work, they even have units that tie into the thermostat to oven and close automatically. Here is a basic one...

Amazon.com: Condar Company ASV-90 Make-Up Air Supply Ventilator: Home & Kitchen

Buy Condar Company ASV-90 Make-Up Air Supply Ventilator: Building Supplies - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

 

[Rusty 72]

We have a wood burning fireplace insert. It gets fresh air from outside. There might be a smoke smell if the door is left open for a short time. Wife opens it sometimes then goes outside to get some wood to put in it. We also have a Honeywell ERV. The ERV continuously pumps fresh air into the house. I would not have a house without the ERV. The house always smells fresh.

 

[bkfj40]

We must be the abnormal Texas resident. ... So far the fireplace “experts” are saying we can’t have spray foam insulation and wood fireplace.(even with an air kit). If push comes to shove, the fireplace wins. I’m sad though because it sounds like a big energy savings when I can’t keep my windows open. The good news is that there are so many toxins within the home we will have some outside air creeping in. Ha.

find a different fire place "expert" because the ones you are saying are experts aren't. They are stuck in the 80s. spray foam is the way to go. We did spray foam in our house we built 7 years ago and I wouldn't change that for anything. We ended up going with an outside air kit for the fireplace.

I am building a cabin in Idaho and have bought a wood stove with outside air kit and plan to put it in later march.

bk

 

[Jupiter Judy]

What's their reasoning for not being able to use a wood stove with a fully sealed spay foamed house?

A fully sealed home should have a passive fresh air system, regardless if wood burning is the primary heat source. Fresh air in the house is just a good idea to not let the air get stagnant. Plus you don't want a negative vacuum in the house or things like water heaters and stove hoods will back draft instead of going out.

Something like this would work, they even have units that tie into the thermostat to oven and close automatically. Here is a basic one...

Amazon.com: Condar Company ASV-90 Make-Up Air Supply Ventilator: Home & Kitchen

Buy Condar Company ASV-90 Make-Up Air Supply Ventilator: Building Supplies - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Thanks for the link. It seems like this would work. I can’t understand why there is somuch resistance to a wood burning fireplace. I guess we will move forward with spray in insulation and the wood burning fireplace.

 

[Jupiter Judy]

Here is my semi educated guess.
On my wood furnace, I have a 4" flex pipe that supplies outside air to the wood stove. I was told that without it the stove tries to take the available air in the house and when it doesnt get enough it begins to smoke. ie incomplete burning.
It looks like your northstar will have the same problem unless it gets some supply air from outside.
Look at page 16 of the installation manual:

Northstar Wood Fireplace

Embrace intense flames and high-efficiency heating.

www.heatnglo.com

This should eliminate any excess smoke.
I noticed an ask the pros, button on their website, and it might be good to pose this question to them.
Bobmo

Thanks. Yes general consensus is to use an outside air supply. However, if it’s that simple, why didn’t the fireplace sales people suggest it?

 

[Jupiter Judy]

Also, on the same subject, sort of: I had no idea a high efficiency fireplace would run $6;000 and up. Yikes am I missing something? We do like the large viewing area of the Northstar but I guess I will be paying the big bucks.

 

[doug720]

Why the resistance to burning wood? It seems regulators have decided that burning wood is bad.

In many areas of California, Oregon, Colorado and other states, you can no longer install a interior or exterior wood burning fireplace. In California, they have days where it's against the law to burn wood at all, even in existing fireplaces! Even Reno Nevada has banned wood burning fixtures in all new construction.

It's natural gas only!

Man has lived with wood fires for a long time...Now we will are losing our ability to use self supplied wood, and will have to buy gas! Too many dam people!