FJ60 Electrical issues

[Scottymeegs]

So I decided to hit a rather long mtn trail today on the way home from camping, its called squaw peak trail, about 20 miles of pretty rocky, rough trail. Goes way high up in the mtns east of provo in utah. I was alone but I did pass a few people along the way.

I had made it a little over halfway and was on the decent of the trail when all the sudden my cd player shuts off and I hear the blower fan cut out, then lots of smoke! I shut the truck off immediately and ripped the deck out of the dash. Smoke was pouring out of it and I disconnected it, it was also pretty damn hot so i hucked it out the window in a bit of a panic haha.

A little background before I go on, The cd player has been on the fritz since I have owned it, it shuts off randomly sometimes, shows and error code other times. One of the previous owners put it in and there is a weird speaker set up in the rear with 2 speaker boxes and one has an amp attached to the bottom. Also the fan wasn't working when I got the truck and since it has been colder I did some research and found that the fan relay thing is really a breaker so I reset it last week. This was the first time I had used the fan/heat for a prolonged amount of time.

Anyways my first thought was the combo of the strange amp set up and using the fan for the first time. I had disconnected the amp and the stereo completely and decided to start the truck, no luck from the starter so since I was pointed downhill I just bump started it. Fired right up, but none of my electric gadges were working, except the tach (2h swap) which runs off the alternator and is a separate gauge on the dash, but maybe after about 5 seconds I started to notice smoke in the tach gauge!! filling it up so again I turned every thing off. Thought it might be a short on the tach wire and I popped the hood.

The battery was boiling, I could hear it and could see smoke coming from it. I disconnected all the hot side wires let it sit and let my self ponder my situation, 10 miles in the mtns with not many people around and one more up hill section to go before I could get back to civilization... The 2h has a mechanical shut off so I was in luck because I also was pointing down hill. I pop started it again and continued on my way. I made it back the main roads and then even back home(another 40miles on the highway) I know this was a bit stupid considering I had no lights whatsoever on the truck but I wasn't about to leave it some where and let it get cold and not be even able to pop start since I would need the glow plugs. But I made it!

Anyways do you guys have any suggestions or pointers? I am sure it has something to do with the crazy wiring on the speakers/amp, but to kill everything? and the smoke in the tach? I checked most of the fuses and they were fine, even the one on the amp. I am going to really dig into it tomorrow but thought I would try to get some insight ahead of time.

 

[Scottymeegs]

Just a pic from the top! Great views up there fire sure!

 

[Adrock]

Start it up and check your voltage level on your reg. Boiling battery sounds like a changing system issue.

I would suspect your reg and/or alternator is bad. Don't know if a 60 has reg internal to the alternator or separate? Imagine its separate.

 

[Wile E Coyote]

Start it up and check your voltage level on your reg. Boiling battery sounds like a changing system issue.

I would suspect your reg and/or alternator is bad. Don't know if a 60 has reg internal to the alternator or separate? Imagine its separate.

x2 Check RUNNING voltage at the alt output and if you read higher than approx 13.6 volts (it could easily be 16 plus) then your voltage regulator is done.

 

[Scottymeegs]

Ok I will. I haven't touched it yet because Im a bit nervous what I will find out. I think this fried my battery which is why the starter wouldn't go on the mountain. so I dont want to buy another battery just to fry it as well. I Think I will get a new VR and then battery and try from there.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

On an FJ60, there is no external regulator. It's solid state and part of the alternator. Stick a different battery and start it, then check the running voltage. It only takes a second and you'll know, without damaging the battery. Was your charge light on during all of this?

I would carefully check your fusible links too, then check the dash fuse panel for blown fuses and the like. Make real sure the PO didn't replace the fusible links with plain wire.

Usually when the regulator fails, the alternator fails to put out any charge, but I suppose an overcharge situation is possible, so look for it.

Problems with FJ60 wiring are not that common. I would look very carefully at the previous owners wiring around the stereo, amp and speakers. It is likely done poorly. Tear out what's bad and start over.

 

[hank14]

I read this and it sounds very similar to what happened to my FJ60 the one and only time it has left me stranded in the 6+ years I've had it. I replaced the alternator with a new voltage regulator on it, and it has been good since. My Optima battery is still going strong as well.

I originally had a local alternator shop source me a Bosch alternator, which cost about $160, but then I bought a used OEM alternator from the classifieds here and have been running that. Since then, I found that you can get OEM for less than $100, and will probably upgrade to that and save my used one as a spare.

Hopefully that is all that is wrong with yours as well. Let us know how it goes.

 

[Scottymeegs]

Is this the voltage reg on to of the alternator? The alt is relatively new.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Well--That's all a big mess. None of it, not even the bracket is stock.

Then there's the tap into the wiring on the battery side of your fusible link! There goes the protection for your chassis wiring.

You have a lot of work to do.

A picture of the engine compartment with the motor and where the alternator is placed would be more helpful. Your picture just shows a home brew bracket and a non-stock alternator. What engine is this? It looks like your alternator is in the wrong position.

 

[Scottymeegs]

Well--That's all a big mess. None of it, not even the bracket is stock.

Then there's the tap into the wiring on the battery side of your fusible link! There goes the protection for your chassis wiring.

You have a lot of work to do.

A picture of the engine compartment with the motor and where the alternator is placed would be more helpful. Your picture just shows a home brew bracket and a non-stock alternator. What engine is this? It looks like your alternator is in the wrong position.

Excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by fusible link?? And which tap exactly are you talking about?

The engine is a 2h in an fj60, the alternator is on the drivers side. Are you sure this is not a stock alt? There fore is that not the regulator on the top of it?

I got a new battery today but now I'm a bit scared to try and test it with my volt meter in fear of damaging more.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

It would have been helpful if you had pet people know it wasn't a stock FJ60. Just that battery tray alone is trouble waiting to happen. Your battery is not restrained. You hit a bump, touch the + to hood, and you're instantly welding.

There is no telling what wiring hacks have been done here. The bracket is welded and not very professionally. There is no way that is a Toyota bracket. It looks like pieces of a couple of Toyota brackets welded together to get things to sort of fit. The alternator itself with that extended snout may be stock, it's hard to say. It may just have been extended to reach the belt path. Hard to imagine it's bearings will last long with the pulley that far in front of the alternator.

At the battery, the wiring is a rat's nest, there is an unfused lead (the roughly 12 ga red wire) . Your fusible links are between the white connector and the green connector. Someone has tapped in there with one of those cheap wire taps that always damage the wire they tap into. This is not good electrical work. It is a hack.

Not being a dick here but if you don't know what a fusible link is, or it's purpose, you should have someone else troubleshoot your system.

Basically a fusible link is a wire, deliberately undersized so it will blow and melt before any other wire downstream would heat up and burn. This saves you from catastrophic fires in your wiring loom. There are 3 of them in an FJ60 but all are between those 2 plastic connectors near the battery. Why you would tap into one of them and do it in a way that compromises the link is a good question to put to the previous owner. Not to mention the red wire which should be fused right at the battery. If not, any chafing and you have an instant short to ground with no fuse to blow and save the day. If I had to guess, much of your problem will be connected to that red wire.

I would not focus on your stereo at all. I would focus on getting your truck wired properly and safely.

 

[gregnash]

On an FJ60, there is no external regulator. It's solid state and part of the alternator. Stick a different battery and start it, then check the running voltage. It only takes a second and you'll know, without damaging the battery. Was your charge light on during all of this?

Just an FYI but this is half true. FJ60 has an external regulator that is separate from the alternator, the FJ62 has an internal regulator that is solid state.

I would agree with everything that cruiserdrew has said:
- check voltage coming from alt WHILE RUNNING
- check that you do not have any shorted grounds (body grounds, frame grounds, etc.)
- check all the POs funky wiring (make sure that some relay is not randomly bypassed behind the dash/kick panel)
- check the fusible links

Most of all you have a very LARGE wiring mess there that needs to be sorted to save yourself any other issues. Question that stands out in my mind, half of the diesels out there are 24v and half are 12v. Did your PO happen to do a conversion of a 24v to 12v? If so, then I would check all the conversion links to ensure that some relay has not been shorted out, etc.

Time to grab some diesel FSMs, a good voltage meter and maybe a good mechanical buddy and start going through things!

 

[Scottymeegs]

I really do appreciate the help and advise. I did mention the engine in my first post. I do know what a fuse is and basic wiring principles I just had never heard that term fuseable link before. I am no expert but I want to learn. I will not merely pay some one to fix it. If I had an electrical engineering friend I wouldn't have even posted this.

But I am on my own. And that is how I have learned to do most things. Research and trial and error. As far as research goes this site is a wealth of knowledge with some great insight and that's why I have posted this.

As far as the 12g red wire. That is for the glow plugs and is only flowing current before I start the motor on cold starts.

The tapped in wire between the fuseable link goes to the tach, but there is a 15a fuse on it that is still fine. But the tach is burned out and when I took it apart I found this.

I broke the worn out battery strap the day of the incident.

After some research yes the alternator does not seem to be stock by any means. And I'm still confused about the voltage reg. I am starting to think this other pic is the reg. it does have some real shotty wiring leading to it. I really need to sit down with some wiring diagrams.

I really do appreciate all your inputs though thank you. And the ih8mud app is awesome.

 

[Scottymeegs]

Well I checked my manual.... I know I know. The first thing I should have done.

That black box is the external regulator. And damn is the wiring sketchy. I also have some diagrams as well so hopefully I can straighten this up.

From this it seems I can test the regulator with it disconnected right?

 

[saucebox]

Well I checked my manual.... I know I know. The first thing I should have done.

That black box is the external regulator. And damn is the wiring sketchy. I also have some diagrams as well so hopefully I can straighten this up.

From this it seems I can test the regulator with it disconnected right?

From the picture: yes. Easier, too.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Just an FYI but this is half true. FJ60 has an external regulator that is separate from the alternator, the FJ62 has an internal regulator that is solid state.

!

This Cruiser has an external regulator that looks stolen from an FJ40!

USA FJ60s, like FJ62s have internal regulators that are part of the alternator. I've done enough work on mine (see my sig line) to know with certainty.

There may be an early FJ60 out there with external regulation but for certain by 1984, all were internally regulated. I think overseas they were externally regulated. I have never seen an FJ60 with external regulation, and in the USA doubt they exist. The regulator is sort of on the exterior of the alternator and can be replaced.

I'm guessing that in this cruiser with the swap, they had to use the 2H alternator because of the vacuum pump, and since it required an external regulator, they had to adapt one. It's likely toast. It almost looks like they adapted the wiring that should be on the back of the alternator, but maybe with the vacuum pump they don''t go there.

Good luck sorting out the wiring. It's the hardest part of a swap and it looks like this one was not put together very well.

BTW-if you can sort this out, I have a spare regulator off my FJ40 that is practically new. Toyota part# 27700-60080-237. I got it from Toyota, maybe used it 3000 miles and then changed to FJ60 alternator and so didn't need it. You can have it if it would help.

 

[gregnash]

Glad you found the FSM and are able to check through it, this will be a good starting point. No need to apologize, we have all been there and unless some of us have started as mechanics we have all had the learning curve.

For the tach, it looks to be completely burnt out. The fact that it has a 15a fuse on it does not mean much as I believe it only takes something like 7v max, but you will have to double-check with that one.

Since you are in Utah, hit up Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters in Sandy (CruiserOutfit on here) and start talking with him. He is a great guy and will more than likely be happy to help you out (plus many others on these boards.

Unfortunately, it looks like you may have somewhat of a hacked together diesel conversion. While it really depends on how badly the PO did things, you have some work cut out for you and all I can say is patience, patience my friend.

 

[Scottymeegs]

I got a hold of Kurt and he said to double check the alt volts with a multi meter. It might have been wired 24v. I really need to get more proficient at using my multimeter. I am going to figure this out!! Haha

 

[bj40green]

The fact that your battery was boiling means that the alternator is/was overcharging.
The result of that is that a lot of electronics don't like that. The (modern) radio cd units have a self protecting circuit which switches off the unit.
Other circuit just burn up because there is no "over charging" protection device.

The alternator in your picture is a 2 wire alt. with a built in Voltage Regulator.
One wire is the B+ to the battery and the other one is the "Sense" wire who checks the voltage in your truck and regulates the voltage output from there.

The external VR is a 3 wire VR used in the 40 series up to 1978. Follow the wires and you'l find that they go nowhere.
The page from the manual is for an external 6 wire VR used on 40 and 60 series after 1978.

Your truck is either 12V or 24V and can not be "wired" differently.

A Fusible Link is a short piece of wire (a few inches long) 4 AWG sizes smaller then the circuit it's protecting.
You can buy them at the dealer or make them yourself. There are several good write ups on DIY fusible Links.

Yours doesn't look like OEM. It's "modified".

To check the voltage:
Hook up a volt meter at the battery posts.
Start engine and let idle. Read volt meter (should be around 12 - 13V)
Rev up slowly the rpms while watching the Volt meter.
The voltage should go up to 14.4V at 1500 rpms. The MAX is 14.8!
When the voltage goes over 14.8 your VR and/or alt are defective. Most problably the VR only.
If the Voltage is below 14.8V switch your headlights on. The Voltage should be between 12.6 and 14V. If so..... everything is fine.

If not.... there is work to do.

Rudi

 

[brett76]

is that the air pump bracket on his alternator?