FJ60 Diesel conversion
- Thread starter browndog
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I went with the 4BT
Newbie Here. Been lurking in the forums for awhile and decided to post to this thread. I have a 4BT/NV4500 in an 85 FJ60. It is not quite completed yet. The swap is being done by Proffitts Cruisers. I spent a lot of time researching and talking to people before I came up with my final choice. I chose to go with the Cummins 4BT for several different reasons.
1. Availability of parts. I have 2 Canadian BJ60's, 1 of which I driver regularly. Both are completely rusted out and would be great for donor vehicles, (40's maybe). It is not difficult to find parts for these but a little more time consuming. These are 3B's mind you. I guess you might just wait a little longer for parts for a 1HZ or 1HDT.
2. I chose the 4BT over the 6BT or 6AT for weight issues. The 4BT actually weighs about 100lbs less than a 2F. Also, with the 4BT there is plenty of room in the engine bay for dual batteries, intercooler, etc. With the 6AT or 6BT, you would be shoe-horning it in there. Though, it has been done before.
3. I could not find one diesel mechanic to tell me anything good about the 6.2 or 6.5 GM diesels. They basically told me "Good Luck!" One mechanic did tell me that as long as I was not pulling any heavy loads, I should be ok. Did not want to find out the hard way.
4. I was very close with going with the Isuzu 4BDT motors. Great motors but very pricey. Also, I could not find much info on them, especially going into Land Cruisers.
Sooooo. I went with the Cummins 4BT. I am basically building a nice highway rig that will see mild off-roading. It will occassionally pull a trailer but mainly be used for my exploring/expedition rig. I regularly travel Mexico, so this rig will be down there a lot. I decided to keep it spring under and did a 4" Alcan lift with a factory 60 full float. I wasn't too thrilled with going with the Alcans but the springs are fairly beefy and like I said, it won't see but mild trail use.
The motor came out of a 1980 Chevrolet P30 delivery van that I bought off eBay. It was a Frito Lay delivery truck and even came with a few packages of ancient pea-nuts. It had about 80k miles on it and runs awesome. I actually drove the van about 1200 miles from Modesto, California to Proffitts Cruisers in Delta, Colorado via Los Angeles. I went to see Marv at SOR and picked up some heavy parts. The van had a governor so it would not travel any faster than 65mph but it got 21mpg! I am expecting 25+ in my 60. Hell yeah!
I am hoping the truck will be done this month. Oh, if anyone is interested in 4BT's or 6BT's, the guy I bought the van from has several. He deals in diesel motors and ships them all over the world. PM if you are interested.
Oh, the new BT60 is now referred to as the "Fritota". I might post pics and more details of the progress in the near future if anybody gives a rat's ass.
Later.
Newbie Here. Been lurking in the forums for awhile and decided to post to this thread. I have a 4BT/NV4500 in an 85 FJ60. It is not quite completed yet. The swap is being done by Proffitts Cruisers. I spent a lot of time researching and talking to people before I came up with my final choice. I chose to go with the Cummins 4BT for several different reasons.
1. Availability of parts. I have 2 Canadian BJ60's, 1 of which I driver regularly. Both are completely rusted out and would be great for donor vehicles, (40's maybe). It is not difficult to find parts for these but a little more time consuming. These are 3B's mind you. I guess you might just wait a little longer for parts for a 1HZ or 1HDT.
2. I chose the 4BT over the 6BT or 6AT for weight issues. The 4BT actually weighs about 100lbs less than a 2F. Also, with the 4BT there is plenty of room in the engine bay for dual batteries, intercooler, etc. With the 6AT or 6BT, you would be shoe-horning it in there. Though, it has been done before.
3. I could not find one diesel mechanic to tell me anything good about the 6.2 or 6.5 GM diesels. They basically told me "Good Luck!" One mechanic did tell me that as long as I was not pulling any heavy loads, I should be ok. Did not want to find out the hard way.
4. I was very close with going with the Isuzu 4BDT motors. Great motors but very pricey. Also, I could not find much info on them, especially going into Land Cruisers.
Sooooo. I went with the Cummins 4BT. I am basically building a nice highway rig that will see mild off-roading. It will occassionally pull a trailer but mainly be used for my exploring/expedition rig. I regularly travel Mexico, so this rig will be down there a lot. I decided to keep it spring under and did a 4" Alcan lift with a factory 60 full float. I wasn't too thrilled with going with the Alcans but the springs are fairly beefy and like I said, it won't see but mild trail use.
The motor came out of a 1980 Chevrolet P30 delivery van that I bought off eBay. It was a Frito Lay delivery truck and even came with a few packages of ancient pea-nuts. It had about 80k miles on it and runs awesome. I actually drove the van about 1200 miles from Modesto, California to Proffitts Cruisers in Delta, Colorado via Los Angeles. I went to see Marv at SOR and picked up some heavy parts. The van had a governor so it would not travel any faster than 65mph but it got 21mpg! I am expecting 25+ in my 60. Hell yeah!
I am hoping the truck will be done this month. Oh, if anyone is interested in 4BT's or 6BT's, the guy I bought the van from has several. He deals in diesel motors and ships them all over the world. PM if you are interested.
Oh, the new BT60 is now referred to as the "Fritota". I might post pics and more details of the progress in the near future if anybody gives a rat's ass.
Later.
paulj said:
HP is up to 125 on the later models with a newer Bosch VE and a newer model Garrett turbo.
Lengthwise is about the same as a 2F.
There are no Cummins versions that are non-turbo'd. Not sure about the Onan's. I do know that they did come (atleast according to my Onan manual) in three and four cylinder versions as well.
Cummins never intercooled the 6AT, as it was dropped in order to focus on the 4B and 6B engines. The only draw back I think of the 6AT is that it is indirect injected (I think the downfall of all indirect injected engines is that they're indirect injected though.) You can adjust the pump and turn it to where it gives better mileage, or better torque. I get about 17-23 (as bad as 14 recently in Moab over elephant hill and in GCRA.) depending on the roof rack, weight, wind, and speed in my heavy 55. I like to drive about 70mph on the highway, up hills I drop it out of overdrive and go 60. On some of the flats in the southwest I found myself going 80 easy.
When I have time I'm going to fit my intercooler and stick an F air cleaner on it. Turn up the fuel a bit, and boost the turbo as well.
Edit: When I build my other 55, it will either have a 4BT or a Toyota diesel. It's a parts vs. driveability question. The 4BT is loud and gives you a "magic fingers" seat-of-the-pants feeling, and is governed to 2500rpm. Awesome torque in stock form. Parts aren't a problem. Toyotas drive very well, are quiet, and are overall a *very* nice engine, but the IHZ isn't direct injected, and parts get kinda $$$. GM diesels aren't really an option for me. If I wanted a mediocre engine I would have put in another 350 (my not so humble opinion).
- Thread starter
- #25
Grease Cruiser: how loud is your 4BT? Did you do the 4" lift to accomodate the oil pan as is the case with the 6 cylinder Cummins? I'd rather not screw around with a lift if I can help it.
if only the exchange rate were a little better....
if only the exchange rate were a little better....
browndog: The 4BT is a bit rattly. It is definitely louder than Toyota diesels. But, not as loud as the 6BT and especially not as loud as the 24 valves. This was a very big concern for me (my wife actually). I plan on running a muffler so it might make it a little quieter.
As far as the lift goes, yes it is because the motor is so tall and you need clearance with the oil pan and top of front axle housing. I was also very concerned about making the rig too tall. I really wanted to run OME springs. I like a mildly lifted mild four wheeler/highway truck. My BT60 is going to be my exploring/expedition rig and my wife will be driving it on a regular basis. She sat in it the other day with the 4" lift and the P235/75/R15's and thought it was too tall already! I did not have the heart (or guts) to tell her it will be an inch or so taller with 33X10.50's. She did say she will probably get used to it. Man, I tell ya, she is one tough chick. I have 6 Cruisers and none of them are less than 20 years old. Cruisers are all we have and all we drive. She regularly drives our BJ60 and our RHD 45 one ton pickup.
I did talk to Jeremiah at Proffitts Cruisers the other day and he thought that you would not have to do a 4" lift on a 40 series. He thinks you could get away with a 2" lift. Also, he was saying that a 4" in a 60 is a MINIMUM. He will have to lengthen the bumpstops so the oil pan will not hit the axle housing.
For me, the lift and loudness were all compromises. I decided to go ahead with it anyways. FWIW I paid about $1,500 for the motor. Compare that to a 1HZ or a 1HDT.
Also, I have an extra 3B and 4 speed still in a BJ60 that I was thinking of putting in a 40 or I will sell both separately or I will sell both together as a project. PM if it sparks any interest. Not really officially for sale but just trying to thin out the collection.
As far as the lift goes, yes it is because the motor is so tall and you need clearance with the oil pan and top of front axle housing. I was also very concerned about making the rig too tall. I really wanted to run OME springs. I like a mildly lifted mild four wheeler/highway truck. My BT60 is going to be my exploring/expedition rig and my wife will be driving it on a regular basis. She sat in it the other day with the 4" lift and the P235/75/R15's and thought it was too tall already! I did not have the heart (or guts) to tell her it will be an inch or so taller with 33X10.50's. She did say she will probably get used to it. Man, I tell ya, she is one tough chick. I have 6 Cruisers and none of them are less than 20 years old. Cruisers are all we have and all we drive. She regularly drives our BJ60 and our RHD 45 one ton pickup.
I did talk to Jeremiah at Proffitts Cruisers the other day and he thought that you would not have to do a 4" lift on a 40 series. He thinks you could get away with a 2" lift. Also, he was saying that a 4" in a 60 is a MINIMUM. He will have to lengthen the bumpstops so the oil pan will not hit the axle housing.
For me, the lift and loudness were all compromises. I decided to go ahead with it anyways. FWIW I paid about $1,500 for the motor. Compare that to a 1HZ or a 1HDT.
Also, I have an extra 3B and 4 speed still in a BJ60 that I was thinking of putting in a 40 or I will sell both separately or I will sell both together as a project. PM if it sparks any interest. Not really officially for sale but just trying to thin out the collection.
Your options are endless. As far as I understand it, Cummins motors (4BT, 6AT, 6BT are the only ones I researched) share the same bolt pattern as the GM. Although, I think it is slightly rotated a few degrees. I would have to dig through my notes to find out how much and which direction. You could run any GM transmission or run an adaptor and Toyota tranny.HZJ60 Guy said:
My 4BT came with a Turbo 400. I opted for the NV4500 route. IMO you would want an overdrive tranny with these motors. Or taller tires, different axle gearing, or combination of all 3.
Another question if I may. What dose that 6AT cost from:
http://www.cumminsstuff.com/auto.htm
again?
They dont list prices. That and what kind of condition are they? Miles and so on.
TB
http://www.cumminsstuff.com/auto.htm
again?
They dont list prices. That and what kind of condition are they? Miles and so on.
TB
The 6AT isn't rotated. The trannies behind it were either NP435, 465, or ??? A lot of the UPS take outs were mated to 465s. There was a thread on pirate about the different bellhousing options. It also runs a 12" clutch. Steve or Brian can tell you more.
John at Cumminsstuff.com knows a LOT about these engines, and I think has a few new ones. If he's not busy he's pretty chatty. I don't know the prices on a new one, but I'm sure he'd be willing to tell you if you call him.
I wish cummins still made this engine in a common rail variation. That would #$%^ing rock!
John at Cumminsstuff.com knows a LOT about these engines, and I think has a few new ones. If he's not busy he's pretty chatty. I don't know the prices on a new one, but I'm sure he'd be willing to tell you if you call him.
I wish cummins still made this engine in a common rail variation. That would #$%^ing rock!
couple more random thoughts:
i ran 4" alcans on my V860 and they were very nice... several trips over Rubicon etc etc.
I now run 4" springs from BTB... not great. but i haven't broken them in yet. They are getting smoother.
Even with 4" springs... i would loan my truck to my mom (this is how i judge the comfort and safeness of a truck... whether i would let my mom borrow it. )
again, i think i body lift would help.
i had 33x10.5 at's on 15x5.5 rims (old FJ40 rims) and i have 33x12.5 on 15x7 rims... if you are concerned about a 4" lift, i wouldn't recomend 33x10.5 (at least... not on 5.5 rims). even at slow speeds, i could feel more body sway with the skinny tires. there were better at 40 psi... but overall, i like the 33x12.5 on 7's... even if it hurts my mileage.
I have already smacked my oilpan (didn't lower my bumpstops enough). going to pull it off and notch it.
i can't believe the 6AT is rated at 120 hp, and the 2F is rated at 135. My 60 feels faster with the diesel.
i priced injectors, and they were $35 plus core.
a new water pump is really expensive (550 bucks), but a rebuild kit is cheap (50 bucks). knowing people who have a press, is helpful. the water pumps are designed to be rebuilt over and over.
you can use chevy motor mounts and chevy clutch (or AA adapter to stock tranny).
RR... are you using a stock cummins bellhousing to mate your NV? Or are you using the cummins plate adapter to a chevy (or AA) bellhousing?
as a segway... 4X4Labs makes sweet bumpers, and saved me from getting hurt today. guy ran a red light, and i T-Boned him (his fault)... tore the guys Oldsmobuick _apart_, and barely scratched my bumper. man i feel lucky i wasn't in my little honda (anyone want a cheap honda?) sorry, felt i owed them a shameless plug for making a good product.
i ran 4" alcans on my V860 and they were very nice... several trips over Rubicon etc etc.
I now run 4" springs from BTB... not great. but i haven't broken them in yet. They are getting smoother.
Even with 4" springs... i would loan my truck to my mom (this is how i judge the comfort and safeness of a truck... whether i would let my mom borrow it. )
again, i think i body lift would help.
i had 33x10.5 at's on 15x5.5 rims (old FJ40 rims) and i have 33x12.5 on 15x7 rims... if you are concerned about a 4" lift, i wouldn't recomend 33x10.5 (at least... not on 5.5 rims). even at slow speeds, i could feel more body sway with the skinny tires. there were better at 40 psi... but overall, i like the 33x12.5 on 7's... even if it hurts my mileage.
I have already smacked my oilpan (didn't lower my bumpstops enough). going to pull it off and notch it.
i can't believe the 6AT is rated at 120 hp, and the 2F is rated at 135. My 60 feels faster with the diesel.
i priced injectors, and they were $35 plus core.
a new water pump is really expensive (550 bucks), but a rebuild kit is cheap (50 bucks). knowing people who have a press, is helpful. the water pumps are designed to be rebuilt over and over.
you can use chevy motor mounts and chevy clutch (or AA adapter to stock tranny).
RR... are you using a stock cummins bellhousing to mate your NV? Or are you using the cummins plate adapter to a chevy (or AA) bellhousing?
as a segway... 4X4Labs makes sweet bumpers, and saved me from getting hurt today. guy ran a red light, and i T-Boned him (his fault)... tore the guys Oldsmobuick _apart_, and barely scratched my bumper. man i feel lucky i wasn't in my little honda (anyone want a cheap honda?) sorry, felt i owed them a shameless plug for making a good product.
Stock 465 bellhousing to a Ranger III overdrive.
Glad you're okay!
Glad you're okay!
- Thread starter
- #34
A few more questions:
1. is there any way to get either of the chevy motors in without modifying the heating ducts or floorboard?
2. Can any of you guys with either 6AT or 4BT rigs send me some pics of your rigs so I can see how tall the lift looks?
Thanks
1. is there any way to get either of the chevy motors in without modifying the heating ducts or floorboard?
2. Can any of you guys with either 6AT or 4BT rigs send me some pics of your rigs so I can see how tall the lift looks?
Thanks
I can get a picture. My passenger side bump stop is lowered 1/2", the rest is the differential making such a dent in the oil pan that it no longer has any clearance problems. Big dent.
The PO built the truck, BTW.
The PO built the truck, BTW.
ridgerunner said:Stock 465 bellhousing to a Ranger III overdrive.
Glad you're okay!
doh, I knew that. I meant to ask Grease cruiser what he was using between his 4bt and his NV4500.
Grease cruiser? what bellhousing? what clutch are you running? and can you PM me the info on the guy in LA who deals with the 4bt motors? that be guh-rrrreat.
browndog said:
Lots of ways. You can use a Marks adapter that places the engine forward, you can use an overdrive adapter or you can run an automatic or longer manual trans.
browndog said:
this is not my diesel 60, but rather my old V8J60. 4" alcans, 1" body lift, 35" tires.
so... my diesel 60 is lower then this. that's not very helpful, is it? i'll try to get a pict of the diesel.