FINALLY!!! Pro active moves!!!

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chicago

chicago

Joined
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This is a new strategy for the OHV community. I don't really like suing the government but it has been a successful tactic of the green advocacy groups for years. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
 
DirtyHarry said:
This is a new strategy for the OHV community. I don't really like suing the government but it has been a successful tactic of the green advocacy groups for years. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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I agree.
As stated... First lawsuit of its kind.
I have been feeling that we NEEDED to something DRASTIC!
IMO, a lot of people in our community have been WAITING for this.
 
rusty_tlc said:
I'm going to look at them a bit more closely before I shell out any Somalians but here is a link to PLF

https://www.pacificlegal.org/donate

Me thinks I'd rather send them $50 a year than send $30 a year to TLCA.
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I was trying to rally donations. I was merely sharing the good news.
I'm with you though too on both statemts!!
I'm really impressed w/ them though.
 
And the State of Kalifornia, just last week, discovered $53-54 MILLION dollars that went undisclosed in the State Parks budget! This after countless parks have been closed, countless hours of legislator's time funded by CA tax payers have been wasted and as or more importantly: Countless public and private sector employees got pink slips because of their supposed lack of funds within the CA parks system.

So...like Harry I believe bringing a lawsuit isn't typically in anyone's best interest its more than a little satisfying to see the ire of the off-road group(s) at large being rallied.


FWIW: Per Greg Mumm/BRC: The outdoor recreation business accounts for 684 BILLION (yes that's with a BEE!) dollars annually here in the USA! That's a boat load of jobs, factories, taxes paid, etc.

Somebody at the legislative/congressional level needs to be reminded of this fact.
 
Like others, suing is a serious thing, but based on the fact that the greenies have been doing it for years, that seems to be the only thing that works.

Good on them, turn about is fair play.

Curious to see the outcome.

Jack
 
I'm happy about it. IMO it set a precedence on behalf of the off road community that were FUGGIN tired of this and NOT gonna take it anymore.
Letters, donations to organizations that are pussy footing around doing everything they can to NOT piss off the powers that be while also bring to light the fact that the government is doing these things ILLEGALLY and stealing to boot.

Like I said, I feel that a lot of the apathy in the community has to do with NO offensive moves being made from the organizations that are supposedly"fighting" to keep trails open.
At the very least, it could pave the way for a whole new method of fighting these monsters and recruit more soldiers along the way.
My BIGGEST issue has been the ideology of... "roll over and take it, give us money and well do what we can, but PLEASE DO NOT PISS OFF THE FS, the judge, the government etc.

I too am looking forward to the outcome.
 
I am as frustrated as you are Keith but I don't see the biggest issue being lack of aggression by land use organizations. They are unfunded and understaffed, plain and simple. They get outspent by the CBD and Sierra Club, who regularly sue the Forest Service and BLM, leaving no money left in the pot to maintain and monitor public lands. What happens when you don't have any money? You put up a gate.

Desperate times call for desperate measures but I am not 100% convinced yet that going on the offensive will have the desired effect. Raising more funds and changing the public's perception of fourwheelers are the biggest issues still in my opinion.
 
Well... I guess we're gonna see either way wether it's a good idea or not.

Hope it works out in our favor!!
 
On the one hand I hate our litigious society.
On the other hand trying to win the battle with lobbying etc. seems like bringing a knife to a gun fight.
 
rusty_tlc said:
On the one hand I hate our litigious society.
On the other hand trying to win the battle with lobbying etc. seems like bringing a knife to a gun fight.
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YES!!!
Especially since its NOT WORKING!!
 
Our system is set up this way. We have to fight hard and hit first, or they win. They have set precedent for 50 years, in closing things off and making up endangered species, just because a genetic mutation in the local squirrel population makes them have a spot on their face. All is fair in War, and that is what we have. They have declared war on us, not the other way around. Turning the other cheek is fine for Jesus, but in the end, they still put him on a cross and stuck a spear in him. I'd rather fight before they put a fork in me and call me done.

Suing the government sounds like the wrong thing to do, but when the government is out of control, the only way to rein them in, is to get a Court to do it.
 
WILLD420 said:
Suing the government sounds like the wrong thing to do, but when the government is out of control, the only way to rein them in, is to get a Court to do it.
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I would argue that is not the only way to do it. There are plenty ways to do it, starting with getting involved at a local level building relationships with the local officials and your representatives. Jeff Knoll started a movement where he was getting people to set up face to face meetings with their state representatives to let them know how important it was not to let 29 Palms expand into the Hammers. It was very effective.

Another example would be the trail on Hunter Lake that GOT REOPENED due to hard work of local guys like Phil Bender. This is the sort of thing that should be national news, and I was in Utah the weekend it happened or it WOULD be national news.
 
DirtyHarry said:
I would argue that is not the only way to do it. There are plenty ways to do it, starting with getting involved at a local level building relationships with the local officials and your representatives. Jeff Knoll started a movement where he was getting people to set up face to face meetings with their state representatives to let them know how important it was not to let 29 Palms expand into the Hammers. It was very effective.

Another example would be the trail on Hunter Lake that GOT REOPENED due to hard work of local guys like Phil Bender. This is the sort of thing that should be national news, and I was in Utah the weekend it happened or it WOULD be national news.
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Well, that WAS one of the big issues that prompted the law suit was the fact that they were working with the FS in good faith, and they turned around and drilled em in the "brown eye".
Yes... It CAN WORK, but we're all coming to the realization that ulterior motives are sneaking in.
 
Like you Harry, I would prefer to leave legal action as a last resort, but when they beat you to the punch on every single issue, it's almost impossible to gain back a winning hand. I am torn in some ways, because I have been on both sides of the issue. I have witnessed innumerable idiots destroying things just because they can, and I've seen hundreds of hard working people destroyed by Government bowing down to the green movement because they either agree, or it's just not worth the fight anymore.

I agree that some control needs to be placed on land use, but closing everything is the losers way out. Everyone loses, even the green movement, but they don't think so. Closing down areas means thousands of kids will never see the wonders of nature, because not everyone has time to hike, or the ability. Those kids won't ever know what they are missing and subsequently will never appreciate the things in nature that make our petty human problems seem as insignificant as they truly are.

Placing animal life and habitat ahead of humans, without any recourse is foolish in ways that are impossible to convey in such a short thing as a forum posting.

Sadly, the animals and habitat are only a tool. The green movement is quite often unconcerned about the welfare of their causes after they have served their purpose, which is to control the actions of others.
 
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