Failed State Safety Inspection because Brakes - Are they really broken?

[RyanStl]

I went through almost 20 pages of search and didn't see anything like this.

I took my '02 TLC into NTB to get a Missouri Safety and Emissions Inspection. Good news is it passed emissions, but NTB found several items to fail on the safety inspection. The one I'm the most concerned with is the brakes. The inspector said he chose category Brake Components, Power Reserve.

Reason: Service brake pedal does not fail (sic) slightly as engine is started while pressure is maintained on pedal.

I believe he meant fall, not fail. He also said when on the lift, the brakes would not stop the wheels 9 out of 10 times despite working perfectly fine while driving.

This is all troubling, but the worst part is he said he has no idea why it is doing this and will need to have their master mechanic look at it tomorrow (rate is $125/hr). I asked what if he can't figure it out, and the answer was you'll need to take it to Toyota, but don't worry our mechanic is a Toyota guru.

Am I being screwed over here? If not, what do you all think is happening?

The reason why I believe I may be being screwed, is one, the brakes appear to work fine. Two, my buddy said you should always take your vehicle to Jiffy Lube for State inspections because they don't work on cars and can't sell you anything other than wiper blades and filters. I took it to Jiffy Lube, but they had a 4 hr wait. NTB was able to get me in right away. They also said I need two new tires because of inside corner trad worn below tread design. Guess what, they sell tires. The tires look okay to me, but who knows? 3rd, when I bought the TLC three years ago it failed safety due to exhaust leak and the shop (Dobbs) said a new muffler was needed. I got all the parts and had an acquaintance replace the original cat back with a cheap aftermarket system. When the original exhaust was removed it looked totally ok. However, I replaced anyway to get the vehicle to pass, but I feel screwed.

I'm thinking about taking it somewhere else for a new inspection. It may be well worth the $35 if NTB is trying to screw me.

 

[hoser]

It sounds like he is testing your brake booster as if it was a typical vacuum booster, getting it’s vacuum from the engine. With the 100 electric brake booster, it won’t matter if the engine is on or off, it’ll have booster granted there is electrical power.

 

[RyanStl]

It sounds like he is testing your brake booster as if it was a typical vacuum booster, getting it’s vacuum from the engine. With the 100 electric brake booster, it won’t matter if the engine is on or off, it’ll have booster granted there is electrical power.

I'll admit, my extent of knowledge regarding brakes is I can change pads and when I press the left pedal down it stops the car. If I understand right, what you are saying is the pedal shouldn't fall in a TLC because the brake booster works different than other vehicles, correct? What about not being able to stop the wheels when on the lift? Seems like it should be able to do that.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Spike555]

A sales person's job is to sell you stuff. Even the people at Best Buy are incentivized to sell you a tv, they get bonus based on their sales.
It does not mean they have your best interest at heart. They need to make money too.
Find a independent shop to do your inspections and have them do work now and then so you stay on their good grace, even if you do your own work, let them do something once a year.

Find out from your state what exactly is required to pass inspection. It should be on their web site.

My commercial vehicle needs to pass federal inspections once a year and I know exactly what can and cannot be wrong. But I also have the same guy do it every year and I also throw him work from time to time.

But you are being screwed.

I am so glad my state does not have inspections

 

[RyanStl]

@hoser I'm trying to learn more and what you say makes a lot of sense now. The pedal didn't depress, so the guy thought something was wrong, but that won't happen with a TLC. Here is from a website that explains brake boosters:

VACUUM BOOSTER PEDAL CHECK
A simple way to check a vacuum brake booster is to pump the brake pedal with the engine off several times to bleed off any residual vacuum from the booster. Then hold the pedal down and start the engine. You should feel the pedal depress slightly as engine vacuum enters the booster and pulls on the diaphragm. If the pedal doesn’t move, check the vacuum hose connection and engine vacuum at the intake manifold. If okay, the problem is a leaky diaphragm inside the booster and the booster needs to be replaced.

HYDRO BOOST PEDAL CHECK
A simple way to test the Hydro-Boost system is to pump the brakes five or six times with the engine off to discharge the accumulator. Then press down hard on the pedal (about 40 lbs. of force) and start the engine. Like a vacuum booster, you should feel the pedal fall slightly, then rise when the engine starts.

ELECTRO-HYDRAULIC
On vehicles with integral antilock brake systems where the master cylinder is part of the hydraulic control assembly (Teves Mark 2 ABS, Bosch III ABS, Delco Powermaster 3 ABS, Bendix 10 and Jeep ABS), an electric pump with a nitrogen pressurized accumulator is used to provide power assist.

On these applications, power assist is provided by pressure stored in the accumulator. We’re talking lots of pressure here, from 675 to 2,600 psi depending on the system and application. When the driver steps on the brake pedal and the pushrod moves forward, it opens a valve inside the master cylinder that allows stored pressure from the accumulator to enter a cavity behind the piston assembly. This pushes the piston forward and applies the brakes.

A pressure switch on the master cylinder monitors the stored pressure in the accumulator, and closes a switch to turn on the electric pump when pressure drops below a preset minimum. It then turns the pump off when pressure is back up to where it should be.

Now that is solved. What about the wheels not being stopped when on a lift? Is that normal?

 

[Spike555]

Of course the wheels not stopping when on a lift is not normal. That would mean they don't stop when on the road either. Only on the lift there is zero resistance. Even the slightest brake pedal and the wheels will immediately stop.
The brakes do not have to overcome the momentum of the truck, only the momentum of the wheels.

Take it elsewhere.

 

[RyanStl]

Of course the wheels not stopping when on a lift is not normal. That would mean they don't stop when on the road either. Only on the lift there is zero resistance. Even the slightest brake pedal and the wheels will immediately stop.
The brakes do not have to overcome the momentum of the truck, only the momentum of the wheels.

Take it elsewhere.

Thanks Spike555, it didn't pass the smell test for me either, but it's nice to get other's thoughts.

At least the wiper blade did have a little rip in it on the right side of the passenger side. One other thing they flagged is the front control arms move under braking. He said it does this because it needs new bushings. This I believe since the rig is 16 years old, but I wouldn't expect that to be something to fail a safety inspection.

 

[RyanStl]

Sorry to pile on, but the tire thing was also bugging me. Here are pictures of the inside wear that was one other thing that failed. It's not great, but it doesn't look unsafe. Sure, I'll be shopping for new tires sooner than later, but to force them to be replaced in 20 days doesn't seem right. I believe they can be rotated to the back and get an alignment to fix whatever caused the wear. It's hard to see, but the regular tread still passes the Lincoln test.

 

[Spike555]

Take it to a alignment shop, if there are any bad bushings they will tell you because the alignment will not "take".
Most alignment shops do free inspections.

In that picture it is to hard to tell about the tire wear.

 

[mmbirtcher]

Run it over to MT Schiele on Watson and see Brad or Aaron, they’ll take good care of you. Honest guys and big LC / T4R guys. They won’t sell you anything you don’t need. @mightymouse

The other good shop in town is JAAMCO on Southwest, but MT Schiele is 1st choice. I don’t have enough knowledge to give you mechanical advice except that I’d replace those tires.

PM me if I can be of any other help.

 

[RyanStl]

Run it over to MT Schiele on Watson and see Brad or Aaron, they’ll take good care of you. Honest guys and big LC / T4R guys. They won’t sell you anything you don’t need. @mightymouse

The other good shop in town is JAAMCO on Southwest, but MT Schiele is 1st choice. I don’t have enough knowledge to give you mechanical advice except that I’d replace those tires.

PM me if I can be of any other help.

Thanks, I have been looking for a shop I can trust and knows Land Cruisers. I will defiantly call in the morning.

 

[suprarx7nut]

That tire looks a little worn, but it's hard to tell. I could see that being past the wear bars, though.

The brake thing is odd. Sounds like they're just clueless and fishing for service revenue.

Government mandated inspections performed by someone who sells products to pass said inspections just reeks of corruption. I'm VERY glad Colorado doesn't do inspections, but if they did I'd spend a lot of time finding a good, honest inspector. I'd search for someone that doesn't sell the equipment or services that relate to the item being inspected.

 

[RyanStl]

Thanks again for everyone's advice. I took the truck to Jiffy Lube and it passed except wiper blades (they legitimately needed to be replaced). I bought their $40 set of blades and now I can get new tags. Yes, that is overpriced for blades and it took three hours, but I'm feeling very relieved. I was totally freaking out yesterday over the prospect of multiple thousand dollar bill.

Luckily in Missouri you can get two year tags, so at least one doesn't have to deal with this every year. However, I'll be doing this over again for the wife's Odyssey in a couple months. Guess where I am not going to take her van to.

I really appreciate the suggestion to use MT Schiele. I have been accumulating the parts needed for a timing belt job and those other parts for the "while in there". However, I'm going to be budgeting for new tires first.

 

[mmbirtcher]

I had them do the timing belt on my son’s 2000 T4R. Solid work as always. Glad you got it worked out

 

[jay3253]

My brother in law sells tires and whenever asked he says yes you need tires. They say but you didn't even look. He tells them of course I sell tires, so don't take my word for it always get a second opinion. Most people come back to him for other services after he puts tires on for them.