Ether (1 Viewer)

[kris_maier]

Hey,
I am down in San Blas, Mexico, and I burnt the glowplugs out on my 3B. (Had something leaning up against the wilson switch for a whole night. whoops.) I have started the truck once with ether and have read that starting a diesel with ether may not be a good idea at all. Has anyone got any insight into this? If not, it's gonna be a bummer having to get pull started everywhere I go for the forseeable future.
Thanks!

 

[Radd Cruisers]

Do not use Ether...

If you're in Mexico it will be warm. A diesel in good shape will start with a bit of cranking.

Think of it this way... $125 for new glow plugs, or $2000 for an engine.

~John

 

[canucksafari]

Yes, it is bad for your engine - glow plugs aren't. Sometimes we use to use it on the Cat diesels at the ski hill when it was really cold. Its good for an emergency but the pits for regular use. And as John said, in warm weather it should start easy with a bit of cranking. Of course, Mexico temps (depending where you are) can be a lot colder than southern Vancouver Island.

 

[roalco]

Well, lots of small diesels use starting fluid (ether) for cold starting, unimogs, Deutz engines, ships lifeboats, emergency generators, the list goes on.
The key thing is to be very careful with it, it has to be fully evaporated (no fluid) when it hit the intake (so break open the air cleaner and apply it there), and should only be given a SMALL shot, and the safest way is only apply it WHILE THE ENGINE IS CRANKING. Allow it to draw the ether in while you are cranking (kinda a 2 person job, to be really safe). remember all you need is one or two cylinders to fire to give you the crank speed to get your compression temps up.
This prevents ether fluid carry over into the cylinder, cylinder wash down and an excessive ether charge upon ignition.
I have used a "Start-Pilote" system in my BJ60 for over 20 years, to help in extreme cold, or if my glows fail. I have 420,000km on the original engine. I have also used it in various forms in my job as a marine engineer for over 30 years.
It's also good to always ensure that your glow system is either not functioning (disconnected) or has fully gone through it's cycle (including afterglow on superglow engines) before you apply the ether.
In my opinion it is a useful alternative, if used correctly.

 

[roscoFJ73]

If you look on the back of a can of Start Ya Bastard or the other brands you will see they are not pure ether.
The other compounds are there to slow the rate of the ether combustion and therefore minimise the potential for engine damage.
Ive used it a few times on an old 1HZ I started on the floor,no damage done and I used a fair bit of the bunny.

 

[crushers]

moderation is the key.
i have used Ether to start many diesels in the past but i DO NOT recommend it. you can do severe damage in very short order if you do not know what you are doing.
Roalco is giving good advice and if you follow it then you will be safe.

John speaks the truth as well, $200 is a LOT cheaper than a replacement engine (although $2000 seems quite low).

common sense has to come into play.

 

[kris_maier]

right on. thanks for all the info. we're ether starting till we find new plugs down here. Ether starting till then. How can I install a pilot system? How does that work?

 

[bender3581]

I've used starting fluid many times on old tractor, old truck, old land rover-as roalco said a little goes a long way-only a short spray through the airfilter while cranking. Most of these engines are c..p and won't start without it when cold. I would use it on my cruiser only in emergency situation. Mechanics around here say that when you start using it regulary you won't be able to start without it

 

[amaurer]

It's also good to always ensure that your glow system is either not functioning (disconnected) or has fully gone through it's cycle (including afterglow on superglow engines) before you apply the ether.
In my opinion it is a useful alternative, if used correctly.

Remember, for a 3B even if you're done glowing, the plugs come on whenever the starter is engaged.

... so you pretty much want to have the glow system disconnected or fully burned out on a 3B for the ether bunny.

 

[roalco]

right on. thanks for all the info. we're ether starting till we find new plugs down here. Ether starting till then. How can I install a pilot system? How does that work?

I just googled Start Pilote and it seems to be almost exclusively european... I recall Monarch Oil in Kitchener Ont. used to handle it but who knows now??
There is another outfit, in the US, callaed QuickStart. The manual unit shown on their website is very similar to the Start-Pilote that I have fitted. They seem to have a good website, but they don't mention prices.

www.quickstart-ether.com

And yes, the voltage to the glow plugs on a super glow system will kick in again after you start cranking, but only to the afterglow setting, about 4 vdc for a 12v system, and it takes at least 3-4 seconds to ramp up to the 4v (on a 6v glow plug) on my rig.
All I can say is I only use it in extreme situations and I haven't had a problem with my set up. And it has never let me down.
Also, I do only manually inject for about a second (count "one-onethousand").
Hope this helps.

 

[canucksafari]

Use to much of it and you might end up with the ether bunny for your navi:

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

[kris_maier]

that quickstart website is real insteresting. I have never seen anything like that. I am running on vegetable oil and sometimes don't purge my fuel lines before turning the truck off. I imagine this would cure me of that potential problem (not being able to start due to cold vegeoil in the injectors). I wonder wether one could rely on the quickstart system in place of glowplugs. It seems like it could work. When I get back to vancouver I want to check into that more. In the meantime I am heading to Guadalajara for more vegeoil and hopefully glowplugs.

 

[amaurer]

And yes, the voltage to the glow plugs on a super glow system will kick in again after you start cranking, but only to the afterglow setting, about 4 vdc for a 12v system, and it takes at least 3-4 seconds to ramp up to the 4v (on a 6v glow plug) on my rig.

For superglow that may be the case.

But for manual glow rigs, the plugs are engaged at a higher voltage than normal when starting - they get full battery voltage when cranking, while normally they get it dropped by a couple volts through the glow controller.

 

[lostmarbles]

....they get full battery voltage when cranking, while normally they get it dropped by a couple volts through the glow controller.

If my memory serves me correctly - we 90%-established this to be the case with some 24V BJ4# cruisers (of around 1979 to 1982 vintage) Drew ..... but no owner of such a vehicle tested their glow relay to provide conclusive proof.

So this is what we BELIEVED their wiring to be (which conforms to your description):



But I know we established for sure that your cruiser and mine (which are both 12V and within the same manufacturing period as listed above) have a "dummy S terminal" on our glow relays that is connected to absolutely nothing inside.

Here is the confirmed glow/start wiring for my BJ40:



And I think yours is identical except for some different part numbers (glow controller & glow relay).

Note that the voltage to our plugs is still "stepped down" by our glow controllers when our keys are in "start".

 

[amaurer]

If my memory serves me correctly - we 90%-established this to be the case with some 24V BJ4# cruisers (of around 1979 to 1982 vintage)

...

Note that the voltage to our plugs is still "stepped down" by our glow controllers when our keys are in "start".

Ohhh right, I remember now.

In any case, there are a lot of 3B's out there that do not reduce glow intensity while starting, and might even increase it.

 

[roalco]

that quickstart website is real insteresting. I have never seen anything like that. I am running on vegetable oil and sometimes don't purge my fuel lines before turning the truck off. I imagine this would cure me of that potential problem (not being able to start due to cold vegeoil in the injectors). I wonder wether one could rely on the quickstart system in place of glowplugs. It seems like it could work. When I get back to vancouver I want to check into that more. In the meantime I am heading to Guadalajara for more vegeoil and hopefully glowplugs.

Hey Kris, I don't think it'll help an unpurged start on VO, it might manage to light it up, depending on temp, but I wouldn't count on it, especially when things get cold and the oil thickens. Stick with proper purges, your fuel system will thank you.
If I had to deep six my glow system, I would have no problems using injection on a regular basis, as long as it is a properly designed and installed system. It's just another option to help a cold, slow cranking diesel to start.

 

[BJ-44]

Another note on Ether don't use it on a diesel with an intake grid heater unless you don't mind the smell of your burnt hair or exploding intake parts. For example the 13B-T, 12H-T, and 1HD-T have intake grid heaters.