Bandeirante Engine choice

[Flatliner]

Hey guys,
Considering a custom build Bandi, if you had the choice which engine would you want, MB OM-364 or Toyota 14b? And, why? Thanks!

 

[knuckle47]

Hey guys,
Considering a custom build Bandi, if you had the choice which engine would you want, MB OM-364 or Toyota 14b? And, why? Thanks!

@Flatliner I have a Bandierante with a 14B and 5 speed. It is new to me and different. While it looks like a 45…. It sure seems to have little in common. It’s in my yard about 10 days and I have had it driving about 60 mph, seems like it can easily to 70+ but I prefer to get all my fluids changed and check out the chassis before I do any of the “endurance” tests. I have been looking for oil, fuel and air filters but have not had success in USA parts store cross-references. Everything I’ve needed had to be ordered except the air filter an LX275. That was cross matched by a local diesel shop. Oil filter arriving today.

My ASSUMPTION was the 14 B is a common use engine and would be listed for parts in most auto stores….NOPE!!!. I started to search for the Mercedes OM-364 and saw a few things but maybe I am always looking in the wrong places. I have read the Mercedes is a bullet proof motor but slow. I’m no expert but those are my initial impressions…for me…..F, 2F or 3F anytime, anyplace

 

[PEOPLES]

Here in Brazil the OM364 with the 5-speed-transmission is the best choice. BUT Brazil is not the US, so this needs to be considered.

The OM364 is a bullet proof commercial diesel engine for small trucks and the 6-cylinder-version (OM366) is installed in every second truck down here in BR. It's a direct injection diesel with a fuly mechanical pump, no glow plugs and no balance shafts. It runs quite rough and sounds like a truck, but it works well.

The 14B came somewhen 1994 into the Bands after the import of engines/car-parts had been allowed.

I would for sure go with the OM364. I like the MB-engines, the spares are commonly avail down here, it never lets you down and due to the high midrange torque, it feels more then 90hp.
BUT the Band with the OM364 and the 4-speed-transmission is slow and it is not so easy to make it faster. The OM364 doesn't like "high" rpm (2800min-1 max), it came out of the OM314 but with an increased stroke. The OM314 can handle 3000min-1 and will also accept a little bit more for short timeframes.
Here in BR there are custom made gear-sets for the diffs, but hard to get and expensive, OR you get a 5-speed-transmission.

Both engines can be equipped with a turbo to gain more power, but it won't get faster because of that. There is actually a OM364LA-version which delivers up to 140hp stock (build in little busses, etc), but the internal components are different as well (Piston cooling, etc.)

Bottom line:
I have the OM314 (and I wish, I would have the OM364) in my Band, becuase in BR you don't go fast AND in every village there is a dealer for truck parts and a mechanic who can deal with those mercedes diesel engines.
Long lasting are all versions, I don't know, if it makes a big difference, if the Band is able to make 600tkm or 800tkm. I drive like 5000km a year.

 

[knuckle47]

I am very surprised with your great knowledge on this model vehicle. I am trying to learn much more about it but my ability to learn another language at my age will be worse than trying to learn diesel. If I can locate a source of parts like hoses, brakes, steering or suspension parts I know I can keep this truck running as long as I am around to enjoy it. Started to try using a google translate and it is very effective and more accurate than I would have believed. Around here on the east coast of the US, it is an odd item, but Jeep and Land Cruiser people are intrigued by it. One of the reasons I want to keep it well maintained for the next few years. At 70, I am pushing hard to enjoy it while I can

 

[PEOPLES]

The good thing about the Bands in Brazil is, that almost all the spares are avail and even for reasonable prices. The little downside is, the build quality is sometimes a little bit bad AND once in a while, they used a specific part (eg. a '88 pickup) to make copies and sell them suitable for all versions, which is not always the case.
But so far I made everything fit

Again, I believe, the Toyota-Engines are a good choice too, just in Europe and for sure in South Americas, it's way easier and cheaper to have the Mercedes Engines, less headache regarding the parts too. And they are really a 100% mechanical, once they are set up fine, they gonna run forever

Sometimes you will find the OM314 named as MB608 and the OM364 as MB709, this is a Brazilian thing, because usually those engines had been used in the little trucks named 608 and 709.
In Germany also used in busses, those little trucks, in the old unimog, some agriculture vehicles, boats, and many other devices with the need for a reliable diesel engine.

Regrading the other parts: Be carefull, sometimes the Brasileiros installed different components for axles, diffs, etc. The brake system is different, I assume the axles are mostly the same, maybe the flanges for the cardans differ, the amount and size of the leaf-springs are different, ....
But it's a old car, nothing to be feared of, lots of room for improvising things. No special tools needed

 

[knuckle47]

Your last paragraph makes a lot of sense… easy to replace a brake system that does not need to be Bandierante specific as long as it mates to the axle housing and fits inside the wheel. Having a current issue with having had changed the fuel filter and gotten air into the lines. Waiting on a replacement filter housing and some ideas on what to do to get it running again.

Toyota 14B diesel issue - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/toyota-14b-diesel-issue.1312724/

 

[xola3que]

Here in Brazil the OM364 with the 5-speed-transmission is the best choice. BUT Brazil is not the US, so this needs to be considered.

The OM364 is a bullet proof commercial diesel engine for small trucks and the 6-cylinder-version (OM366) is installed in every second truck down here in BR. It's a direct injection diesel with a fuly mechanical pump, no glow plugs and no balance shafts. It runs quite rough and sounds like a truck, but it works well.

The 14B came somewhen 1994 into the Bands after the import of engines/car-parts had been allowed.

I would for sure go with the OM364. I like the MB-engines, the spares are commonly avail down here, it never lets you down and due to the high midrange torque, it feels more then 90hp.
BUT the Band with the OM364 and the 4-speed-transmission is slow and it is not so easy to make it faster. The OM364 doesn't like "high" rpm (2800min-1 max), it came out of the OM314 but with an increased stroke. The OM314 can handle 3000min-1 and will also accept a little bit more for short timeframes.
Here in BR there are custom made gear-sets for the diffs, but hard to get and expensive, OR you get a 5-speed-transmission.

Both engines can be equipped with a turbo to gain more power, but it won't get faster because of that. There is actually a OM364LA-version which delivers up to 140hp stock (build in little busses, etc), but the internal components are different as well (Piston cooling, etc.)

Bottom line:
I have the OM314 (and I wish, I would have the OM364) in my Band, becuase in BR you don't go fast AND in every village there is a dealer for truck parts and a mechanic who can deal with those mercedes diesel engines.
Long lasting are all versions, I don't know, if it makes a big difference, if the Band is able to make 600tkm or 800tkm. I drive like 5000km a year.

@PEOPLES Would love having you coming over for dinner tapping in to your Bandi knowledge

Yes, I have an OM364 w/ a 4 speeds (5 if you count the reverse) and it's SLOW as molasses. Very torquey, though. Just wish I have another hi gear or overdrive.

The Bandi has been at a local Land Cruiser shop for a month get cleaning up on shoddy Brazilian electrical works as well as greasing, alignment, fluid/oil change all around. Def not one of those 1-2 days shop work.

I wouldn't bother with the turbo or a new 5 speed trans. Once I save up enough, she will get an LS transplant from a Tahoe and be done with it. Parts are dime a dozen and you don't have to learn another language just to buy an oil filter. That's how I'd look at it.

BTW @PEOPLES & @knuckle47 Does your truck wandering around alot when driving. Maybe I've forgotten how old trucks drive but she leans and sways all over. Just making sure I didn't overlook anything in the suspensions.

 

[PEOPLES]

Always in for a nice Churracso

The 4-speed can be upgraded to a 5-speed or the ratio in the diffs can be changed. I often thought about that for my '89er but at the end, I would only use it to drive at lower RPM, not to go faster. And therefore it wouldn't pay off.

Some gusy down here swap for a MWM-engine which is usually installed in a Troller. 3.2Liter-Diesel with 170hp or so. My dream would be a OM366LA (6Liter-Diesel with up to 240hp stock), but at the end, I would still lack of RPM to get the truck faster.
I guess, I will keep mine like that and just take care of it and be happy with a reliable truck.

The Bandi has been at a local Land Cruiser shop for a month get cleaning up on shoddy Brazilian electrical works

That's a common problem, not only the electrical things. On old cars "everybody" was allowed to test his mechanical skills. Brazilians are supernice people, but they love to work with jungle-interim-repairs and keep it like that.
I had to fix all those attemps an mine as well. Just as example: the lock-nuts for the hubs on the front axle hab been opened and closed with a chisel. I mean, it'S ok for a emergency-repair in the jungle, but pls fix it in a proper way at home. Well, not down here, the car is driven forever and when it brakes down again, it's "bad luck" (and not bad maintenance).
I replaced all the joints of the steering and the lock-nuts there are 32mm. I bought a suitable wrench and brought to the repair shop, which did jsut the alignment. The mechanic was kind of surprised, when I told him not to use the ****ing water-pump-pliers and use the wrench I bought.
The tools are commonly avail and I have most of them in my garage, but you hardly find them with "normal" people or even in a normal workshop. They love those kind of workarounds in whatever they do and they are even proud of it. What really bothers me is the fact, that the tools AND the spare parts are avail in generall, they are just to .... (I don't know their motivation) to do it.

I hope you don't get in a bad mood, but for sure you will find more worn out threads, destroyed lock-nuts, "creative workarounds" and so on. The only way to get it done, is do it right. It took me a year on mine, now it's kind of ok, after I bought tons of nuts, sealing-rings, screws, lockplates, washer, ....

 

[xola3que]

Hey guys,
Considering a custom build Bandi, if you had the choice which engine would you want, MB OM-364 or Toyota 14b? And, why? Thanks!Chevy

Always in for a nice Churracso

The 4-speed can be upgraded to a 5-speed or the ratio in the diffs can be changed. I often thought about that for my '89er but at the end, I would only use it to drive at lower RPM, not to go faster. And therefore it wouldn't pay off.

Some gusy down here swap for a MWM-engine which is usually installed in a Troller. 3.2Liter-Diesel with 170hp or so. My dream would be a OM366LA (6Liter-Diesel with up to 240hp stock), but at the end, I would still lack of RPM to get the truck faster.
I guess, I will keep mine like that and just take care of it and be happy with a reliable truck.


That's a common problem, not only the electrical things. On old cars "everybody" was allowed to test his mechanical skills. Brazilians are supernice people, but they love to work with jungle-interim-repairs and keep it like that.
I had to fix all those attemps an mine as well. Just as example: the lock-nuts for the hubs on the front axle hab been opened and closed with a chisel. I mean, it'S ok for a emergency-repair in the jungle, but pls fix it in a proper way at home. Well, not down here, the car is driven forever and when it brakes down again, it's "bad luck" (and not bad maintenance).
I replaced all the joints of the steering and the lock-nuts there are 32mm. I bought a suitable wrench and brought to the repair shop, which did jsut the alignment. The mechanic was kind of surprised, when I told him not to use the f***ing water-pump-pliers and use the wrench I bought.
The tools are commonly avail and I have most of them in my garage, but you hardly find them with "normal" people or even in a normal workshop. They love those kind of workarounds in whatever they do and they are even proud of it. What really bothers me is the fact, that the tools AND the spare parts are avail in generall, they are just to .... (I don't know their motivation) to do it.

I hope you don't get in a bad mood, but for sure you will find more worn out threads, destroyed lock-nuts, "creative workarounds" and so on. The only way to get it done, is do it right. It took me a year on mine, now it's kind of ok, after I bought tons of nuts, sealing-rings, screws, lockplates, washer, ....

Nah, she's a product of love any way I look at it. Was a bit upset when I first got her home, seeing how hapharzard things were put together. But i had to remind myself she's one of a kind and just be thankful for the numerous pairs of hands before me who kept her in a great condition for me to enjoy. Everything else I can make it work.

You know you love her too much when she's at the shop for a month and you're going crazy wanting her back

 

[knuckle47]

Today 5 27 23 I spent about 9 hours crawling around chasing things, wires. cables, and dead ends…@PEOPLES you are absolutely correct. I have several makeshift repairs that must has solved a temporary problem that are semi-permanent now

 

[xola3que]

Today 5 27 23 I sent about 9 hours crawling around chasing things, wires. cables, and dead ends…@PEOPLES you are absolutely correct. I have several makeshift repairs that must has solved a temporary problem that are semi-permanent now

My mechanic found household wires and speaker's cable powering 55W offroad lights.
I'm sure there's more hack jobs don't know at this point.