Engine bay body rips (9 Viewers)

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Those are some interesting questions.

I do not have any sources in Toy.au, I would figure that your knowledge would be greater than mine based on your long-time participation in the 120 forum.

As far as the 4th gen 4R, I do not know of any issues, which in itself may not mean much. Few of those are wheeled, and I suspect (based on what I see in the service drive here) that few owners are what I would consider "conscientious" or "attentive" to their vehicles. ;)

Like I said, it could merely just be the unlucky placement of the crumple zone rear pre-stress points... maybe moving it just an inch or two one way or another might be all the difference in the world?
 
valkyrie610 said:
...

My personal theory is simply frame flex. ....

I think when it's all said and done, either the frame design would be beefed and/or and additional cross member would be added..... ;)
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My thoughts Exactly... Thanks for your efforts Valk'....

I figure, since the FJ07 has this, and now some FJ08's
are starting to show, plus the Prado issue and a few FJ's
that have had the pannels replaced are having reaccuring
buldges... got to be the common element...

.

.

.
 
Last edited:
tntoyota said:
Twins huh...:confused:


Prado 120



Looks like that legendary build quality is...

Well this is all nice talking to you folks but I gots to go buy me another truck!

Have fun sorting it all out I know ya'll will........:lol:
Click to expand...

that's funny you linked info that I helped create, on a site I helped create and is owned by a good friend (bulldog-yota).
Yes, the FJC shares a lot of similarities.

thanks for contributing your thoughts, I think they would really appreciate your contributions in chit-chat.

back to real discussion on this topic...
 
FirstToy said:
that's funny you linked info that I helped create, on a site I helped create and is owned by a good friend (bulldog-yota).
Yes, the FJC shares a lot of similarities.

thanks for contributing your thoughts, I think they would really appreciate your contributions in chit-chat.

back to real discussion on this topic...
Click to expand...

I wasn't linking info :confused:

I just dont see the "twins" similarity, do you mean the same frame and DT? :confused:
 
FirstToy said:
Click here for information
back to the topic at hand.... Engine bay body rips
Click to expand...

If what I have read is true - Some who have had the inner aprons replaced are now still starting to experience a bulge (precursor to body rips), then the probability of the frame being a little too flexy is a good bet. I know the older 40 frames were not welded together, but I believe rivited. Welding makes the frame stiffer. In this case, maybe some new pieces added to the frame in key areas will stop the problem?
 
Oky doky, now I as try and slide back on topic. I have 30k, first series FJ. Not a grocery getter, everyday driver, only vehicle we own. Nothing whatsoever at this point. I don't understand from this Forum and others how people are experiencing this with what they claim is that they have done no offroad driving. How much frame flexing is occuring if some vehicles are never seeing dirt???
 
Funny...I haven't been following this thread for a few days, but I've been thinking all week that maybe I should not drive my TRD for a while (I have bulge beginning on drivers side) and configure some type of X brace to stiffen the body and/or frame. Then I remembered I don't have a fully equipped shop set up anymore :-(

It does have the "cowl shake" I remember from the old Italian sports cars I drove when I could still fit in them.
 
valkyrie610 said:
Thanks for the kind words.

IMHO, no. In fact, if the mounts were weak, any damage would be in that area. Being that the pressure is being relieved at the stress relief point of the crumple zone indent, that speaks volumes about the strength of the connecting points.

Basically, the engine compartment is like a 3-sided box, with the core support being the third part of the box. The aprons are welded to the firewall/cabin, and under each "corner" (if you will) is a body mount- 2 under the body, and 2 under the core support.

Since the aprons are bulging (and cracking in some cases), this leads me to believe that the frame is twisting, causing the bulges/cracks to form at different rates.

The only other way it could bulge was if the frame bent down in front, in which case both bulges would likely appear more uniform to each other. In the normal course of vehicle operation, this is unfathomable to me. If anything, it would be more likely for the frame to bow up, but this would cause the affected areas to tear without bulging, due to a stretching action.

I think this will end up being nothing more than the by-product of a flexy frame exerting an odd force on a pre-existing crumple zone. I do not think, from what I have seen, that there is a serious structural issue, but it is still early in the game for most of these.

Toyota may simply elect to reinforce the aprons of early models, or they may choose to do nothing if they determine there is not a significant risk to the structural integrity/safety.

I know there will be a lot of "chicken littles" (and attorneys) who will never be satisfied with anything, and a lot of wanna-be engineers who will debate the safety of a "pre-crumpled" crumple zone, but in the end I believe Toyota will make the best decision for everyone involved, with the safety of the consumer at the forefront.

All I do know is that any decision will undoubtedly not please everyone. :rolleyes:


These are my opinions only, and not that of Toyota. Please don't try to make a Federal Case out of my opinions. I am not an engineer, nor have I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express recently.
Click to expand...

I think you're on the right track. Maybe you and Bud Built can design/fabricate a cross member to stiffen the "3 sided box" known as the engine bay! I just know I don't want to see my truck with the dash ripped out and fresh spot welds everywhere. It sure would be sweet if a simple cross member could be welded on before my buckle turns into a rip.
 
I'm pasting part of a recent post from another forum to stress (pun intended) my opinion that this is a SIGNIFICANT DESIGN FLAW that WILL eventually manifest itself in most FJ's. Before I'm called "Henny Penny", it's fairly evident that metal fatigue from constant flexing is basically what's going on here. Keep in mind that the poll on this enthusiast forum shows anywhere from 100 to 200 people are affected. These are ENTHUSIASTS who spend much more time than most auto owners tinkering w/ their vehicles. Imagine the VAST majority of people who have a life and will likely NEVER be aware there's an issue (unless their apron finally collapses into the engine bay).

I love my TRD and don't want to sell it (beside I can't...for what I'd want for it). I've just got a bulge on one side (11,000 miles) and am going to try to keep the miles relatively low until some sort of solution is found.

My personal feeling is (with nothing more than conjecture and a very old mechanical engineering degree that I've never really used) that some frame/body stiffening cross member(s) would minimize cowl shake/body & frame flex enough to slow down or eliminate the problem. This is just likely very wishful thinking :-(

Anyone with an FJ should frequently check these crumple zones for signs of metal fatigue, and get them documented by the dealer & field rep. If you're so inclined, an NTHSA report may be warranted.

Also keep in mind, replacing the inner fender aprons a SECOND TIME is leaving you with a pretty hacked up vehicle.

Here's the post:
"
Don't want to bother or scare anyone, but I have to give you all an update:

We had the truck fixed with the new core support and panels....

...and it broke again.

Before, it was cracked in one place. We got it fixed. Now it's bulging in the same place, but cracking closer to the front of the truck, in a different place.

We went to our Toyota dealership, and the service manager said Toyota will probably WANT our truck. As in for forever. Wow.

So Toyota is trying very hard to fix the problem, but they are trying to figure it out themselves and fix it before they tell people and they all go running like ants in a panic.

So I will keep you updated.
 
Hmmm

"Post delete" is all that's left this morning. Maybe the Yakuza got hold of the poster!

It's the last post on this page from "MrsMudLoving FJ" in Cali.

But it was a direct "cut & paste" last night. And correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't there been a few other cases of the replacement apron failing after reapir?
 
Valk-
Any developments you can share with us?!
 
NYCTRD said:
Hmmm

"Post delete" is all that's left this morning. Maybe the Yakuza got hold of the poster!

It's the last post on this page from "MrsMudLoving FJ" in Cali.

But it was a direct "cut & paste" last night. And correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't there been a few other cases of the replacement apron failing after reapir?
Click to expand...

I wonder why that would have been deleted ?
 
I don't see any deletions or edits to NYCTRD's posts, not sure what was deleted but maybe self-inflicted? ;)

In any case, looks like NYCTRD posted a link for you. cheers
 
I have an idea, why don't we all call/mail toyota pretending to be potential buyers but are concerned about the frequent reports of engine bay body rips. Maybe if we could make toyota believe that this problem will affect sales by having a couple of thousand people call/mail with this question they might become a bit more pro-active. What do you all think?



If you'd like to discuss your experience or share your comments, Toyota's Customer Experience Center representatives are happy to assist you.

Phone: 800-331-4331
Fax: 310-468-7814
Mon - Fri: 5:00 am - 6:00 pm PT
Sat: 7:00 am - 4:00 pm PT

Or send correspondence to:
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
19001 South Western Ave.
Dept. WC11
Torrance, CA 90501

Lets use consumer power to make them respond.
 
I think he was talking about posts 1860-1863 where the "Deezus" stupidity apparently spiraled out of control.

In any event, Larry says he has personal confirmation that a replaced fender has bulged after "hard" off-roading in post #1883... that wouldn't surprise me.

I have nothing to add regarding anything about Toyota's research from my test platform.

I will say that the wild speculation and inflammatory statements (Also keep in mind, replacing the inner fender aprons a SECOND TIME is leaving you with a pretty hacked up vehicle) offer little if anything productive.

Silly hysterics like that is what drove me from the blue room and makes me want to avoid participating in this discussion.

Sorry, that's just how I see it. I'll touch base if I hear anything further...
 
anatomyguy said:
I have an idea, why don't we all call/mail toyota pretending to be potential buyers but are concerned about the frequent reports of engine bay body rips. Maybe if we could make toyota believe that this problem will affect sales by having a couple of thousand people call/mail with this question they might become a bit more pro-active.
Click to expand...

Why waste time jamming up a call center designed to assist ALL customers with bogus calls trying to force a hasty decision rather than a correct one?

Believe it or not, Toyota does believe that uncorrected quality issues will affect sales, and more importantly can lead to worse consequences.

Who said they aren't being proactive (besides you)?

If someone is truly in the market, by all means inquire. If it worries you, either buy something else or wait for a resolution.
 
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