egr tube blowout turns ugly & related idle issues (1 Viewer)

[Slow Left]

I need to run to the store to get more carb cleaner with a straw for more precise aiming. Also I don't have the air cleaner on but hoses disconnected and plugged. I tried to make sure the aerosol didn't go into the carb throat earlier but I think I'll double check with better precision aim and air cleaner assembly on.

Alright, just post and let me know.

If you aim it right at the base of that accordion thing, I seriously doubt it will find its way into through the carb even with the air cleaner cover off, but whatever it takes to convince yourself is what you should do.

 

[Infinity00]

My picture are too big I think- I'll try to post them differently but yes the intake manifold side was plugged just like you said

 

[Slow Left]

When you say let it run for 5-10 minutes, does this have to be after spraying that area? If it doesn't, then I know it will drop to 12-13 occasionally then come back up. I have a 30 sec video of that happening but it doesn't happen regularly.

what i was referring to do for 5-10 minutes was to keep the vac from your hand held vac pump on the brake booster diaphragm, to see if it holds (for a long time) that same level of 10 in Hg that you said you were able to get by pumping a million times...
you shouldn't have to have the engine running to do this, in fact it would give you that bad idle of 2.5 inHg if you did because the brake booste hose is disconnected from the intake manifold port.

 

[Slow Left]

My picture are too big I think- I'll try to post them differently but yes the intake manifold side was plugged just like you said

OK. And it gave you the same 15 inHg vac that you measured when the brake booster hose was connected to the intake manifold port.

 

[Slow Left]

OK, according to this parts listing, that thing is called a 'union'.

 

[Slow Left]

I'll check your updated posts tomorrow.

I'd be interested in knowing if the vac you applied with your handheld vac pump onto the brake booster diaphragm held for more than ten minutes.

Also, let me know if you confirmed a vac leak at the base of that union.

Cheers

 

[Slow Left]

If the brake booster diaphragm did hold vac for that long, then it appears the booster diaphragm is not the problem.

If you confirm that there is a vac leak at the base of that union, you have to either try and fix the union that is in there, or if that isn't possible, get another.

From what you say, it is a pretty solid piece, so I doubt it is cracked itself. What probably happened is when it was removed ( I think I remember you posting that it was removed while you were doing repairs), then it might just need to be reinstalled correctly.

It looks like it just screws into the intake manifold. If you disconnect the hoses, get on the base of it with a open end wrench and it should back out. Take a look at the hole it screws into and check for cracks (maybe from overtightening). When you screw it back in, don't over tighten it because the intake manifold is aluminum. You don't want to strip the threads.
If might put a thin coat of that orange sealant on the threads, but you're only going to need a very thin coat.
Reinstall and check again for vac leak.

If that solves a vac leak problem, your manifold vac should go upto around 20 inHg or so. That's good. That's what it should be.
Go back and reset your timing back to 7* BTDC and see if you can still hold an idle. If so, then repeat the lean drop tune on your carb and see how it runs.
If you can't hold an idle at 7* BTDC, set it as close to that as possible, do the lean drop, and then recheck the timing to see if you can get to 7* BTDC (and then redo the lean drop).

Either way, let me know.

 

[Infinity00]

I grabbed some new pcv hose and new clamps while getting the carb cleaner. After putting the new hose and clamping that whole system really good the idle was holding steady, didn't have the 2-3 in hg droops anymore. I think that was my last line to replace so now when I spray carb cleaner around different areas I no longer get any increase in rpm. Not the accordion boot after all, but as you know, the pcv is only an inch or so away.

After the idle cleared up I went back to adjust the carb idle mix and idle screw. The gas is definitely getting sacked through the upper port and not just through the idle circuit. Makes a lot of gurgling sound . Probably need to do more searching on this- I know I've read posts about this issue.

 

[Infinity00]

I might have jumped the gun a little, after messing with the carb I've noticed the vacuum drops from 15 to 13 and back to 15.5 very so often. Definitely not on the idle circuit whatsoever. Closed the mix screw all the way down and no change.

 

[Slow Left]

Did the brake booster diaphragm hold the vac you put on it from your handheld vac gauge for over 10 mins?

Did you positively identify the union on the intake manifold as being the source of a vac leak?

 

[Infinity00]

The union turned out to be okay. But the pcv vacuum line very close to it was stiff so i replaced it. Before doing that the vacuum dropped to 11 from 15.5 every few minutes, after replacing and clamping it tightly it seemed alot better, and my vacuum drops to 13 every so often but definitely better than before where it seemed like it would die.

Didn't see the clarification on the brake vac test until after I got home. Will try that today at lunch! Thanks again for all your help!

 

[Infinity00]

From what read, I don't think I'll ever get 20 in hg. Living at 6500 feet the best I can hope for is 16. Would love to hear from others that live at higher elevations to see if they get higher vacuum readings.

 

[Slow Left]

From what read, I don't think I'll ever get 20 in hg. Living at 6500 feet the best I can hope for is 16. Would love to hear from others that live at higher elevations to see if they get higher vacuum readings.

Do you know what the engine vac on the truck was before the j-pipe incident?

See this thread:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/597731-what-your-intake-manifold-vacuum-inhg.html

 

[Slow Left]

The union turned out to be okay. But the pcv vacuum line very close to it was stiff so i replaced it. Before doing that the vacuum dropped to 11 from 15.5 every few minutes, after replacing and clamping it tightly it seemed alot better, and my vacuum drops to 13 every so often but definitely better than before where it seemed like it would die.

Didn't see the clarification on the brake vac test until after I got home. Will try that today at lunch! Thanks again for all your help!

Alright, the union is OK. So no vac leak there.

 

[Slow Left]

From what read, I don't think I'll ever get 20 in hg. Living at 6500 feet the best I can hope for is 16. Would love to hear from others that live at higher elevations to see if they get higher vacuum readings.

See this thread:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/597731-what-your-intake-manifold-vacuum-inhg.html

 

[Infinity00]

I don t have vacuum numbers from before unfortunatly.

Update on brake booster vacuum: pulled a vacuum using hand pump on the brake booster side. Brought vacuum down to 13 inhg. After ten minutes of idling the truck with the pump still attached and without touching the brakes the vacuum dropped to 0 gradually.

 

[Slow Left]

But the pcv vacuum line very close to it was stiff so i replaced it. Before doing that the vacuum dropped to 11 from 15.5 every few minutes, after replacing and clamping it tightly it seemed alot better, and my vacuum drops to 13 every so often but definitely better than before where it seemed like it would die.

So the vac hose that goes from the PCV valve on the passenger side of the engine block, behind the air filter and over to the driver's side connects to the intake manifold at the same place where the pipe from the EGR valve used to connect. So it should have vac on it.

You replaced it and saw an improvement, so you might have solved a vac leak if that old hose was cracked. That's good.

But now that you have the EGR removed, does the hose from the PCV still connect to the same place? This is where you mounted a modified plate that you got from Cruiser Outfitters?

Have you sprayed around that newly mounted plate area with carb cleaner to test for vac leaks?

 

[Slow Left]

Update on brake booster vacuum: pulled a vacuum using hand pump on the brake booster side. Brought vacuum down to 13 inhg. After ten minutes of idling the truck with the pump still attached and without touching the brakes the vacuum dropped to 0 gradually.

Hmm. I'll check mine this weekend and see how it compares (assuming that mine is functioning correctly).

But when you ran the previous vac test:

With your vac gauge into the A/C idle up fitting on the union on the intake manifold:
Then start the engine.

With the engine idling, take a vac reading.
Reading was 15 inHg

With the engine still idling, remove and let the hose that goes from the intake manifold to the brake booster just hang open and take a second vac reading.
Reading was 2.5 inHg

With the engine still idling, plug (on the intake manifold side) where the hose that goes from the intake manifold to the brake booster and take a third vac reading.
Reading was 15 inHg again



So if there is a slow leak in the diaphragm, it doesn't appear to be having too much of an affect on the vac reading on the manifold.
It could be that you have a larger vac leak somewhere else or it is small enough not to be measured in the intake vac reading.

Need to know if the diaphragm is supposed to hold tight vac for a long period of time. I'll let you know what mine does this weekend.

 

[Slow Left]

Keep looking for vac leaks.
Big ones: In/Ex manifold, where insulator/heat shield meet intake manifold, where insulator/heat shield meet base of carb, insulator on carb that goes between the bottom and middle plate, any connection that goes into the intake manifold.

You said you have now replaced all the vac lines for the emissions, right?

Double check that they are all routed correctly. No open or broken lines. Double check the BVSV mod.

Do the Emissions Manual check for each emission component (don't need to do the Air Injection or any system that doesn't affect ignition or fuel- on BVSVs, just check the routing or bypass them, don't pull them off to check them). It looks overwhelming, but it really doesn't take that long, once you become familiarized with each system.

Also, in the throats of each barrel in the carb there are small holes in the walls. When you did the carb rebuild, you should have been able to spray carb cleaner through those and the slow jets. Try spraying those good with carb cleaner using the plastic hose on the can of carb cleaner inserted inside the hole (with the engine off). They might be clogged and that is why your idle mixture screw is not responding. Don't drop the plastic hose down into the manifold. If you have ever bought Seafoam, it comes with a curved red plastic hose. That might work better than a straight one, because the opening to those holes in the barrel walls might be pointing down.

Once you are convinced lines are routed correctly and the emissions components are working properly and to the best of your ability there are no vac leaks, reset timing as close to 7* BTDC and get the best idle you can get on the carb.

Then I would do a valve adjustment. When was the last time the valves were adjusted?
If you have never done one, double team with your buddy who help you do the other stuff or with someone else who's done it before. Don't overtighten the exhaust valves, they are going to get tighter with time.

see links for full procedure on setting the valves:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/489587-fj60-valve-adjustment.html
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=4300965&postcount=7

When you are ready to adjust the valves, take off the flywheel housing cover underneath your rig and move the flywheel until you can see the line and the bb, then paint them both white with white fingernail polish or chalk. It will make it easier to see them in the viewing window.
Use the line, not the bb, on the flywheel when adjusting the valves; when the line on the flywheel aligns with the pointer on the viewing window, the 1st cylinder is AT TDC, and when the bb on the flywheel aligns with the pointer on the viewing window, the 1st cylinder is 7* BEFORE TDC. To get the line on the flywheel to align with pointer on the viewing window, make sure the rig is parked on a flat surface. With the engine OFF, put the transmission in 4th gear and release the handbrake. Now you can push or pull the front of the truck and the wheels will rotate the crankshaft which will rotate the flywheel until you see the line mark on the flywheel align with the pointer in the window.
Remove your distributor cap (you can leave all the ignition wires attached).
Check whether the rotor on your distributor is pointing the ignition wire on the distributor cap that leads to the 1st or 6th cylinder; if it is pointing to 1, then the 1 piston is in compression stroke and 6 in exhaust and vice versa. See the chart on page two of the link above.

 

[Infinity00]

The valves were adjusted less than 1000 miles ago, but I've been wondering about their condition since the area got so hot. I will check it this weekend.

I doubled checked all the vac routing but do need to confirm components works right. I did that check of all the emissions components 5 years ago but should do it again to be sure.

PCV line is routed almost as you describe but I'm not remembering it going right into the intake manifold directly but anyway it does tie to the intake manifold. There isn't a mod there for the egr. The plate I was referring to is a plate to cover the hole in the exhaust downpipe, the item bought from cruiser outfitters was the manifold gasket.

I sprayed a lot more carb cleaner around the metal union that goes into the intake manifold and it still revved up the engine, it just wanted more juice. I removed it and cleaned up the threads but didn't have time to reinstall. I might just plug the hole with a threaded plug with sealer to take the brake and ac idle uo out of the circuit just while I continue to diagnose. I haven't decided yet if it's worth doing or just sealing the union threads really well this time. The union itself doesn't leak. The accordion is for reducing heat to the attached tubing, it's a radiator not an accordian!

One other thing is while I'm in the engine bay it is really exhausty smelling. I mean, I go back to work completely smelling like exhaust after looking at the engine for less than an hour. I think there is still a major exhaust leak somewhere but I don't really know how to check if the leak is coming from the exhaust manifold, the metal plate covering the exhaust down tube hole left from egr removal, or just a bad cat or muffler. The cat is 7-8 years old but less than 10, 000 miles but again its a Checker cat. Someone that saw it, thinks it looks small. At the time, checker said it was smaller because they are more efficient than the old ones but I'm not sure I should believe that in hindsight. Maybe this could cause back pressure?

Great idea for checking the BVSV, the choke is getting pulled off by vacuum so I'm pretty sure the lower BVSV is operational and the upper one got broken during repairs so it is already bypassed. I will check the lower.

I won't have a chance to work on it until Sunday but will update more then.