Driving in sand

[FrazzledHunter]

Remind me what tire size you run again?

A number of people in my group run the 450P. Old faithful, solid performance, and a premium pump that will always deliver. For something less than a 35" tire, great pump to get. For a 35+ tire, and if going from super low to high inflation pressures like towing, say 15-45PSI, it can get tedious. At 6 min per tire, x4, and it's 30+ plus minutes considering the logistics of pulling the pump out, hooking to battery, connecting to tire, moving from each tire (octopus helps)... 30 minutes isn't bad, but it's enough time where it might be a factor in not airing down at all or low enough.

Some might say why the rush. Depends on use case and how one uses it, but there are days off-roading when transitioning on freeways between segments, where having to air down/up 2-3 times a day, makes a fast pump worth it.

If you have a mild tire size, and team red, the Milwaukee M18 is a great inflator. Not as fast as the 450P, but it's self contained/powered. Auto shutoff. The ease of use can make it a great pump especially when considering the trailer.

There's some epically fast new kids on the block too. Something like the MOORFlate FiveSix or even TenSix. Requires octopuses as they're that fast and too limited by the tiny Schrader Valves. Many re-branded and variations of these pumps on the market all over the place, though not all will exactly the same or of the same quality.

Aw nuts - I meant to put in the tire sizes. Geesh.

• The LC runs OEM size Michelin Defender 285/60 R18 which call for 33 PSI cold.
  • These are obviously the tires that will be aired down to 18-20 PSI and back up to 33 PSI.
• The trailer is a dual axle and runs 4 Westlake CR857+ ST235/75 R15 which call for 51 PSI cold.
  • My current Viair 300P struggles with this pressure. It may just be old.
  • But I won't be airing the trailer tires down/up, just adding a pound or two as needed.

I have Anderson SB-50 connectors in the LC cabin on the driver's and passenger's side foot-well so getting to DC isn't too bad.
I guess I'm looking for a compressor I can start up and go around the LC with a hose and fill, fill, fill, fill without having to stop and wait for it to cool.

The MOORFlate look intriguing.

 

[jl199986]

The MOORFlate look intriguing.

Very happy with my Moorflate 10/6 Pro. Well built, runs cool, super fast, easy to set. Keeps all tires equal. Only for x4 inflation really. Hose is easy enough to roll up. Stores in a Trekboxx wing- snugly.

 

[TeCKis300]

Aw nuts - I meant to put in the tire sizes. Geesh.

• The LC runs OEM size Michelin Defender 285/60 R18 which call for 33 PSI cold.
  • These are obviously the tires that will be aired down to 18-20 PSI and back up to 33 PSI.
• The trailer is a dual axle and runs 4 Westlake CR857+ ST235/75 R15 which call for 51 PSI cold.
  • My current Viair 300P struggles with this pressure. It may just be old.
  • But I won't be airing the trailer tires down/up, just adding a pound or two as needed.

I have Anderson SB-50 connectors in the LC cabin on the driver's and passenger's side foot-well so getting to DC isn't too bad.
I guess I'm looking for a compressor I can start up and go around the LC with a hose and fill, fill, fill, fill without having to stop and wait for it to cool.

The MOORFlate look intriguing.

For stock size tires, I think the MOORFlate is going to be too much pump if I'm being honest.

I would actually recommend the Milwaukee M18. The cordless convenience and utility (no power cords and hoses) can't be beat. For on road and home. I've aired down the trailer before and even putting in the extra extension hose to reach with installed onboard air sometimes makes me lazy. If a fire road is beyond a few miles, I'll air down the trailer - for the softer ride, tire puncture protection, and floatation in sand. Having an easy ability to air up makes me make better decisions.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

For stock size tires, I think the MOORFlate is going to be too much pump if I'm being honest.

I would actually recommend the Milwaukee M18. The cordless convenience and utility (no power cords and hoses) can't be beat. For on road and home. I've aired down the trailer before and even putting in the extra extension hose to reach with installed onboard air sometimes makes me lazy. If a fire road is beyond a few miles, I'll air down the trailer - for the softer ride, tire puncture protection, and floatation in sand. Having an easy ability to air up makes me make better decisions.

I really wished I could have driven on that beach but airing up might have been too much for my compressor. I wasn't keen on "Fooling Around and Finding Out" or bothering anyone else.

The MOORFlate is a lot of compressor! Just wow. Perhaps it isn't a good match for me, I think, because I'd like a compressor that moves around with me from the LC, travel trailer and even our old '06 Avalon. The LC will be airing down and up, but I don't plan on airing down the trailer.

Hadn't heard about the M18. I'll have a look.

Meanwhile I stumbled on the ARB portables - I thought they only made the mounted type which are great, but I want a very portable setup. I love the case, air volume and duty cycle of this one. It's probably worth every penny. But OMG the price!
Brushless Single Motor Portable 12V Air Compressor CKBLP12 - https://store.arbusa.com/brushless-single-motor-portable-12v-air-compressor-ckblp12/

Any idea if we have an official compressor thread?

 

[TexomaPowerboater]

There is a great youtube video on this topic. The video shows that for really soft sand you will want to put in 4low and disengage traction control twice - hit switch once, and then click it a second time and hold down to completely disengage the traction and likely stabiltrac with the second effort. The video shows the car cutting power automatically when tires spin if you don't do as mentioned and that is likely why some of ya'll had to use crawl control to begin with.

 

[Sandroad]

There is a great youtube video on this topic. The video shows that for really soft sand you will want to put in 4low and disengage traction control twice - hit switch once, and then click it a second time and hold down to completely disengage the traction and likely stabiltrac with the second effort. The video shows the car cutting power automatically when tires spin if you don't do as mentioned and that is likely why some of ya'll had to use crawl control to begin with.

What vehicle is this for? It’s not for the 200 series.

 

[Sinister]

I really wished I could have driven on that beach but airing up might have been too much for my compressor. I wasn't keen on "Fooling Around and Finding Out" or bothering anyone else.

The MOORFlate is a lot of compressor! Just wow. Perhaps it isn't a good match for me, I think, because I'd like a compressor that moves around with me from the LC, travel trailer and even our old '06 Avalon. The LC will be airing down and up, but I don't plan on airing down the trailer.

Hadn't heard about the M18. I'll have a look.

Meanwhile I stumbled on the ARB portables - I thought they only made the mounted type which are great, but I want a very portable setup. I love the case, air volume and duty cycle of this one. It's probably worth every penny. But OMG the price!
Brushless Single Motor Portable 12V Air Compressor CKBLP12 - https://store.arbusa.com/brushless-single-motor-portable-12v-air-compressor-ckblp12/

Any idea if we have an official compressor thread?

I would love to see how good this is. I like my viair but looking for something with more speed.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

I just took delivery of the ARB compressor. It appears very solidly built. Case and locks are Pelican quality. The fittings appear very well machined. I haven't tried it yet - too much going on at the moment but I'll get to it soon maybe this weekend. I'm wondering if I should get their inflator or something like it:
https://www.amazon.com/ARB-ARB601-Pressure-Inflator-Deflator/dp/B073RS57L5?tag=ihco-20

I suppose if I'm contemplating driving on sand I should also get recovery gear.

 

[rscoleman]

So for both my Toyota T100 and LC. I just drive if I start to lose traction T100 lock front hubs and put it in 4hi. If start to loose traction again T100 and LC to 4lo. If I have issues after that, air down. I got the LC stuck on purpose at beach just to see if crawl control would pull it out and it did. The T100 only time it ever been stuck was if I got it twisted up enough to pull a front and rear off ground (no locking diffs). I aired down the T100 once in AZ but that was full on dunes. I think I went to 15 or 12 lbs. My rule of thumb is don't do anything different until what your currently doing stops working.

 

[M1911]

I just took delivery of the ARB compressor. It appears very solidly built. Case and locks are Pelican quality. The fittings appear very well machined. I haven't tried it yet - too much going on at the moment but I'll get to it soon maybe this weekend. I'm wondering if I should get their inflator or something like it:
https://www.amazon.com/ARB-ARB601-Pressure-Inflator-Deflator/dp/B073RS57L5?tag=ihco-20

I suppose if I'm contemplating driving on sand I should also get recovery gear.

View attachment 4029925

View attachment 4029924

The most important recovery gear is a shovel.

 

[Heckraiser]

As a comparable, but much cheaper, alternative to the ARB twin, the PUMA is a great pump! Tried and true with a ton of followers in the 80 section. Mine has been with me for about a decade. Similar speed to the ARB twin, 100% duty cycle. You can just leave it running without burning it out. The full package with air tank is pretty bulky, but you can separate the compressor from the tank and it becomes quite compact, and it really hardly affects air-up time at all (tank shaves a few seconds off the first tire, but only if you're starting with a pressurized tank).

Thread 'Puma 12V Compressor'

Jul 18, 2007

The little Puma compressor came, I got it wired and here are some first impressions;

It's a small unit, 17"L x 17"H x 7.5"W overall at the widest points, the coupler sticks out, if relocated it would be ~6" wide. Pretty lightweight at 32lb 5oz with the wire.

Ran it for the break-in on a battery charger, it relatively quiet, and [STRIKE][STRIKE]pulled 22 amps at 14.7v without a load, according to the charger's gauge. At full load, just before the tank was full it showed 25 amps, so 10G wire will be fine. 25 amp at 14.7v = ~.5 HP.[/STRIKE][/STRIKE] Additional, more realistic testing was done by...

• Tools R Us
• Replies: 613
• Forum: Camping & Outdoor Gear

• 

 

[FrazzledHunter]

The most important recovery gear is a shovel.

For once I don't have to buy something. I actually have a shovel that goes camping with us. It's a vintage WW II or possibly Vietnam era issue ARMY folding shovel or "trenching tool" complete with the cloth cover with metal MOLLE hooks to put on a belt or hang somewhere. It's quite stout and in mint condition. It was my Dad's and I got it when inherited all his MIL stuff when he passed.

So I guess a set of MaxTrax, a tow strap and one of those things that goes into the hitch receiver is on my list. ARB has great stuff. I just dropped a pile on their compressor so maybe I'll get one of their recovery kits.

 

[M1911]

For once I don't have to buy something. I actually have a shovel that goes camping with us. It's a vintage WW II or possibly Vietnam era issue ARMY folding shovel or "trenching tool" complete with the cloth cover with metal MOLLE hooks to put on a belt or hang somewhere. It's quite stout and in mint condition. It was my Dad's and I got it when inherited all his MIL stuff when he passed.

So I guess a set of MaxTrax, a tow strap and one of those things that goes into the hitch receiver is on my list. ARB has great stuff. I just dropped a pile on their compressor so maybe I'll get one of their recovery kits.

That depends upon where you are going. I've been driving on the beach on Martha's Vineyard for two weeks a year for over 20 years. First in my '03 4Runner. Second in a 200 series Land Cruiser. More recently in my 2020 LX. I've only got stuck once and that was due to inattention on my part. The light was very flat and I didn't see a dip as I was rounding a corner. I high-centered coming out of the dip. I stopped trying to drive out very quickly, got out, and shoveled for a couple minutes. Then I was able to back out.

I always air down to about 15 psi. I usually use lo range in my 200s, as that enables the traction control setting for sand. I always lock the center diff. We are limited to 15 mph on the beach and I want to keep my speed down anyways, to avoid crashing over washboards. I've found that lo range makes it easier to keep my speed down. You certainly don't need the torque multiplication of lo range when in sand, so hi range works also.

The key is to not get stuck in the first place. I strongly disagree with folks who say drive normally and then only air down or change this or change that after you start to get stuck. Don't get stuck in the first place by airing down and using the right settings. Pay attention and if you don't see tire tracks where you want to go, then don't go there.

I'm sure there are places with softer sand than the beaches that I ride on, so perhaps in places like that MaxTrax might be useful. But they are not necessary at all where I go. YMMV.

 

[TeCKis300]

^Spot on.

Unless it's wet packed sand (easy), I'm in 4LO. Important to not ride the torque converter building heat, as it's higher loads with sand, lower speed, and minimal airflow. Center locked is useful to ensure power is being put down, but it also disables traction control so power is not cut as wheelspeed is often important to not get bogged.

And definitely air down first - no point starting at a disadvantage, getting bogged digging down and stuck, to then hope to get out.

Adding, I find lockers to useful in loose and dynamic terrain like sand. ATRAC and CRAWL only go so far. But they give up too much momentum and wheelspeed. More technical sand driving, steep dunes, moguls and stuff, really benefit from lockers.

 

[Artie]

Turning off the babysitters is also something you should know how to do when getting out on sand. This isn’t a “when in doubt, throttle out” driving condition but not having power cut to any of the wheels is a plus for sand.

Traction boards are great and 2 is usually good enough to get you moving again, but you gotta retrieve them so they aren’t problem free.

A hitch mounted recovery point is a great addition to your recovery gear as is a few quality soft shackles. Kinetic ropes are great as well but take up valuable space, definitely a pro/con equation there.

As @TeCKis300 said, start out with the intentions on not getting stuck in the first place… air down.

Editing to add: if you are airing down often I’d also look at the Apex valves to replace your oem valve stems, they are worth the investment. That ARB digital inflator is nice, I have 2, once for the cruiser and the other for my garage. I’ve found it matches what my tire sensors see but I may have just gotten lucky there.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

I just took delivery of the ARB compressor. It appears very solidly built. Case and locks are Pelican quality. The fittings appear very well machined. I haven't tried it yet - too much going on at the moment but I'll get to it soon maybe this weekend. I'm wondering if I should get their inflator or something like it:
https://www.amazon.com/ARB-ARB601-Pressure-Inflator-Deflator/dp/B073RS57L5?tag=ihco-20

I suppose if I'm contemplating driving on sand I should also get recovery gear.

View attachment 4029925

View attachment 4029924

Quoting my own post for context...sorry.

I just tried the first test. This compressor rocks as compared to my old Viair.
Observations & thoughts are as follows:

• Tires: Michelin Defender LTX M/S 285/60R18/XL 120H (OEM size)
• Time: 18-33 psi in just under a minute maybe less . I didn't have a gauge inline so I had to fill for 10-20 secs and take a reading.
• Power draw: from 2nd battery 40A and 400W; a bit of a voltage drop from 12.3V OCV to about 10V under load as there was no engine running.
• Loved:
  • Flexible hose. The hose on my Viair is a stiff coil and I hate it.
  • Clamp on air fitting for the schrader valve: so I didn't have to hold on to it.
  • 100 % duty cycle: you just turn it on and it gets to pressure then stops like my shop compressor.
  • Power connection: it has an Anderson SB-50 DC power connector so I don't have to open the hood. I can just run a DC extension from my SB-50's located at the driver & passenger foot-well or from the SB-175 (with an adapter) located at the rear bumper.

I think I'll keep it.

 

[Sandroad]

Quoting my own post for context...sorry.

I just tried the first test. This compressor rocks as compared to my old Viair.
Observations & thoughts are as follows:

• Tires: Michelin Defender LTX M/S 285/60R18/XL 120H (OEM size)
• Time: 18-33 psi in just under a minute maybe less . I didn't have a gauge inline so I had to fill for 10-20 secs and take a reading.
• Power draw: from 2nd battery 40A and 400W; a bit of a voltage drop from 12.3V OCV to about 10V under load as there was no engine running.
• Loved:
  • Flexible hose. The hose on my Viair is a stiff coil and I hate it.
  • Clamp on air fitting for the schrader valve: so I didn't have to hold on to it.
  • 100 % duty cycle: you just turn it on and it gets to pressure then stops like my shop compressor.
  • Power connection: it has an Anderson SB-50 DC power connector so I don't have to open the hood. I can just run a DC extension from my SB-50's located at the driver & passenger foot-well or from the SB-175 (with an adapter) located at the rear bumper.

I think I'll keep it.

Good report on older Viair comparison. I’d like a faster air-up time than I get on my Viair and the ARB looks fast.

 

[Artie]

Quoting my own post for context...sorry.

I just tried the first test. This compressor rocks as compared to my old Viair.
Observations & thoughts are as follows:

• Tires: Michelin Defender LTX M/S 285/60R18/XL 120H (OEM size)
• Time: 18-33 psi in just under a minute maybe less . I didn't have a gauge inline so I had to fill for 10-20 secs and take a reading.
• Power draw: from 2nd battery 40A and 400W; a bit of a voltage drop from 12.3V OCV to about 10V under load as there was no engine running.
• Loved:
  • Flexible hose. The hose on my Viair is a stiff coil and I hate it.
  • Clamp on air fitting for the schrader valve: so I didn't have to hold on to it.
  • 100 % duty cycle: you just turn it on and it gets to pressure then stops like my shop compressor.
  • Power connection: it has an Anderson SB-50 DC power connector so I don't have to open the hood. I can just run a DC extension from my SB-50's located at the driver & passenger foot-well or from the SB-175 (with an adapter) located at the rear bumper.

I think I'll keep it.

Sounds like a solid upgrade! You’re much more likely to air down when the refill process sucks less.

 

[TeCKis300]

• Power draw: from 2nd battery 40A and 400W; a bit of a voltage drop from 12.3V OCV to about 10V under load as there was no engine running.

The battery, pump, and all electronics involved will be much happier if you run the engine when drawing these kinds of heavy loads.

The pump as an inductive load will draw higher amps with voltage drop. More amps is more heat.

Running the engine will reduce wear and tear and provide better pump performance.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

The battery, pump, and all electronics involved will be much happier if you run the engine when drawing these kinds of heavy loads.

The pump as an inductive load will draw higher amps with voltage drop. More amps is more heat.

Running the engine will reduce wear and tear and provide better pump performance.

True enough.

I ran it off the 2nd battery that I use for pretty much all this kind of stuff. It's maintained by a REDARC BCDC 1225D under the hood which, implied by its name, is limited to 25A. If however, I ran it off the starter battery with the engine running then it benefits from the full power of the 390A alternator. In that scenario I get to screw around with current & voltage vs. engine RPM's.

Yet another science project.
I'll have to actually try this when I'm out of things to do this winter LOL.