dog attacked my dog

[Tofudebeest]

It's fun to hear an idealist animal lover giving more credit to a dog than any of us would give to a human of low intelligence. It's an animal, it doesn't think the way we do, we can't understand or predict it.

That's so darling. The vast majority of the time, animal behavior, particularly domesticated animal behavior is fully predictable. Just because you are ignorant of this scientific fact does not make you correct.

And animals are very good at hiding illness and injury, we're likely to miss that a dog is in pain and likely to attack in defense for no apparent reason.

Duh.

I was attacked repeatedly by a big Selian Terrier at a house I house-sat years ago. :babble babble:

That's "Sealyham terrier", and they're known to be nasty, like Kerry Blues. And they're never "big" seldom exceeding 30 pounds.

tofu, i am constantly amazed at your psychoanalytical/deep thinking bull****
i rarely get into these types of discussions. unlike u, i only talk about things i really know about.

Again, just because you're ignorant, don't assume I am.

while u are correct in stating that through abuse/sickness/poor socialization, a "good breed" like wheatens can produce a biter, and through great care/socialization, a "bad breed" like pits can produce a sweet, cuddly mush, by and large, dogs act like they were BRED to act. they dont know why they do things, they just do them. take the german shorthaired pointer. dog that's never been trained to point will just freeze looking at a pigeon. he cant help it...because it has been genetically programmed by hundreds of years of careful breeding to do just that..find birds, and point. fighting dogs are aggressive....period. even if a pit is a sweet as a teddy bear, there is that little thing in the back of its brain screaming at it to kill..especially if it senses vulnerability. it may not bite, but instinct/genetics are telling it to. if u dont realize that, then ur more of a moron than atticus thinks u are

While your tone sucks, you're correct. But, don't you understand that we actually agree on almost all these points.

Breeds almost always conform to their breed characteristics, no debate on that. All animals can flip like a switch due to injury, disease, etc. However, a HEALTHY dog, bred to fight with other dogs, such as a shar pei, pit bull, or chow is absolutley expected to be a menace towards other dogs. All you can do it train it to resist its impulses and avoid negative stimuli.

Likewise, guard dogs, such as the molossoids (mastiffs), who were trained to attack PEOPLE, should virtually never be fully trusted around people, particularly little kids.

But a dog who is dog-aggressive does not normally become human-aggressive unless it is abused, injured, tormented, or abnormally provoked. It happens, and there are warning signs. They do not just one day decide that Little Timmy is gonna die.

Look, I am not going to go on and on about my background, my experience, my education or my ability to perceive subtle body language in canines, and you'll of course just dismiss anything I have to say on this subject, but I assure you, if you read, you will find that I am correct.

When "good dogs" (towards people) become "bad" (towards people), there is damn near ALWAYS more to the story. It is seldom merely about what breed they are.

Unfortunately, because of their unique toughness, the group of breeds known as "pit bulls" in the States and in Latin America (predominantly) have been especially favored to TRAIN to be human-aggressive by thugs, low-lifes and assorted ass-hats. It is these dogs that comprise the vast majority of the human-bite statistics for that breed (and other, similar ones).

But, again, a chow, pit or any other dog-aggressive breed is not normally aggressive towards humans anymore so than dalmatians, golden retrievers, or poodles, they're just not. The reason why the pit bull appears on so many "most dangerous breeds" lists is because people TRAIN/abuse them to be a menace towards not just the dogs they were bred to be aggressive towards, but people too. Absent this training or abuse, they are jsut typically dog-monsters and that is why there are so many loving, affectionate, completely predictable "pit bulls" and chows as trusted family pets, with zero incidence of human aggression, though one should probably keep other dogs away from them, unless they are very well-socialized and trained.

The Most Aggressive Dog Breeds; Dachshund #1?? « For the Love of the Dog

 

[Tofudebeest]

ScienceDirect - Applied Animal Behaviour Science : Breed differences in canine aggression

Note that there are distinct recognized forms of aggression:
Stranger-directed aggression (SDA),
Owner-directed aggression (ODA)
Dog-directed aggression (DDA)
Fear-based aggression (FBA)

Dogs occasionally possess multiple forms of aggression, but it is far more common that they possess just one.
Most importantly, and directly to my point, a dog, no matter the genetics does not all of a sudden (with no prior warning signs) exhibit aggression outside of it's normal aggression profile, (again barring physical injury, disease, etc.). It isn't about the breed, it is about the DOG.

 

[Atticus]

I'll bite: Tofu, what education do you have in canine behavior?

 

[Jman]

I'll bite Tofu.

Behave!

 

[agomez]

I'll bite: Tofu, what education do you have in canine behavior?

he has a master's degree in dog behavior from the university of google.....lol

 

[Tofudebeest]

I'll bite: Tofu, what education do you have in canine behavior?

As part of my pre-veterinary coursework, I took classes at the University of Florida in animal behavior, behavioral ecology and comparative psychology. When I changed majors and career paths, wildlife ecology, biology, and zoology predominated.

As a life-long dog person, I have attended literally hundreds of hours in dog training classes, as has my wife. She is a certified dog trainer, and licensed wildlife rehabilitator. When we figure out how to have her make an income doing rehabbing again (no paying facility in Gainesville), she will sell her pet sitting and animal training business, as she did with the one she built up in Miami.
Two of our best friends are veterinarians, my wife and I have both worked for numerous animal hospitals, animal rescues, and training facilities.

I've exposed my personal info to you before, I'd be happy to email you my resume, if you really wish to see it...provided you agree to keep it private.

 

[scottm]

That's so darling. The vast majority of the time, animal behavior, particularly domesticated animal behavior is fully predictable. Just because you are ignorant of this scientific fact does not make you correct.

I guess that's why we hardly ever hear about an animal "expert" (like you) getting killed by the animal they've been observing and working with for years. I don't think I've heard about that happening this week anyway.

Ignorance is most dangerous when you think you're an expert.

 

[bigndn]

I'll bite: Tofu, what education do you have in canine behavior?

he has a master's degree in dog behavior from the university of google.....lol

I was thinking more along the lines of a PHD in canine response to peanut butter on human genetalia.

Or possible a Master's thesis on "Organ removal following canine-human interactions: a guide to easing penis captivus."

 

[Fly Rod]

ScienceDirect - Applied Animal Behaviour Science : Breed differences in canine aggression

Note that there are distinct recognized forms of aggression:
Stranger-directed aggression (SDA),
Owner-directed aggression (ODA)
Dog-directed aggression (DDA)
Fear-based aggression (FBA)

Dogs occasionally possess multiple forms of aggression, but it is far more common that they possess just one.
Most importantly, and directly to my point, a dog, no matter the genetics does not all of a sudden (with no prior warning signs) exhibit aggression outside of it's normal aggression profile, (again barring physical injury, disease, etc.). It isn't about the breed, it is about the DOG.

So what type of aggression did that cute cuddly 9mo old lab that ripped my daughters lower lip off show?




Oh, wait a minute, I don't give a fxxx! It should be dead right now. My daughter has to live with her scar the rest of her life. I have to live with the memory of holding her hand as we were walking down the sidewalk when the dog attacked. I had asked the owner 2 minutes before if her dog was ok with kids. "Yes, I am a teacher and it goes to school with me. It loves kids." I asked why it was barking and she said she just got home and it is always excited to see her. I have spend hundreds of hours training labs at high levels for waterfowling. I know how to read thier minds and direct them into good decisions, I should have known better. This dog went from happy waggy to attack in an instant. FWIW, labs are the #1 dog for bites in the US.

Thanks for your insight but if a dog shows aggression it should be put down. That includes my dogs!

 

[Atticus]

As part of my pre-veterinary coursework, I took classes at the University of Florida in animal behavior, behavioral ecology and comparative psychology. When I changed majors and career paths, wildlife ecology, biology, and zoology predominated.

As a life-long dog person, I have attended literally hundreds of hours in dog training classes, as has my wife. She is a certified dog trainer, and licensed wildlife rehabilitator. When we figure out how to have her make an income doing rehabbing again (no paying facility in Gainesville), she will sell her pet sitting and animal training business, as she did with the one she built up in Miami.
Two of our best friends are veterinarians, my wife and I have both worked for numerous animal hospitals, animal rescues, and training facilities.

I've exposed my personal info to you before, I'd be happy to email you my resume, if you really wish to see it...provided you agree to keep it private.

I don't. I was just curious.

 

[Tofudebeest]

So what type of aggression did that cute cuddly 9mo old lab that ripped my daughters lower lip off show?

Thanks for your insight but if a dog shows aggression it should be put down. That includes my dogs![/QUOTE]

Was I there? No. And I agree about putting down (human) aggressive dogs, unless they are kept by licensed, insured professionals who have a legitimate need for such animals, (e.g. not as pets).

 

[scottm]

DOG BITE LAW - Statistics about dog bites in the USA and elsewhere

Children are the most frequent targets
Studies of dog bite injuries have reported that:
■The median age of patients bitten was 15 years, with children, especially boys aged 5 to 9 years, having the highest incidence rate
■The odds that a bite victim will be a child are 3.2 to 1. (CDC.)
■Children seen in emergency departments were more likely than older persons to be bitten on the face, neck, and head. 77% of injuries to children under 10 years old are facial.
■Severe injuries occur almost exclusively in children less than 10 years of age.
■The majority of dog attacks (61%) happen at home or in a familiar place.
■The vast majority of biting dogs (77%) belong to the victim's family or a friend.
■When a child less than 4 years old is the victim, the family dog was the attacker half the time (47%), and the attack almost always happened in the family home (90%).
The face is the most frequent target
Studies also have shown that:
■Dog bites result in approximately 44,000 facial injuries in US hospitals each year. This represents between 0.5% and 1.5% of all emergency room visits
■The face is the most frequent target (77% of all injures). Mail carriers are an exception where 97% involve the lower extremities.
■The central target area for the face includes the lips, nose, and cheeks.

 

[OregonCruzer]

tofu, i am constantly amazed at your psychoanalytical/deep thinking bull****
i rarely get into these types of discussions. unlike u, i only talk about things i really know about.
while u are correct in stating that through abuse/sickness/poor socialization, a "good breed" like wheatens can produce a biter, and through great care/socialization, a "bad breed" like pits can produce a sweet, cuddly mush, by and large, dogs act like they were BRED to act. they dont know why they do things, they just do them. take the german shorthaired pointer. dog that's never been trained to point will just freeze looking at a pigeon. he cant help it...because it has been genetically programmed by hundreds of years of careful breeding to do just that..find birds, and point. fighting dogs are aggressive....period. even if a pit is a sweet as a teddy bear, there is that little thing in the back of its brain screaming at it to kill..especially if it senses vulnerability. it may not bite, but instinct/genetics are telling it to. if u dont realize that, then ur more of a moron than atticus thinks u are

u=you or it's conjugates.

 

[scottm]

u=you or it's conjugates.

Perhaps he typed all that out on his cellphone and needed to minimize space and keystrokes. In that case, impressive typing skills and determination. And what he typed was as spot-on as Tofu is wrong.

edit: This seems appropriate here: "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before ... he is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way." - Kurt Vonnegut Jr

 

[Johnnymiz]

u=you or it's conjugates.

So sorry. I'll try to do better next time.

 

[OregonCruzer]

Perhaps he typed all that out on his cellphone and needed to minimize space and keystrokes. In that case, impressive typing skills and determination. And what he typed was as spot-on as Tofu is wrong.

edit: This seems appropriate here: "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before ... he is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way." - Kurt Vonnegut Jr

Nerd I bet you'd like to meet a body cummin through the rye...

So sorry. I'll try to do better next time.

Win!

 

[scottm]

I just googled Sealyham terrier, lol, not the dog I battled. Chester looked more like a bull-dog, well over 50 pounds, bent a stout choker collar when he bit it during one of our battles. Must have been a mix or mutt. Owner insisted he was a rare breed and there was a rescue society trying to keep the breed alive. She was psycho. Awesome cook though, she paid me in food.

 

[Tofudebeest]

Perhaps he typed all that out on his cellphone and needed to minimize space and keystrokes. In that case, impressive typing skills and determination. And what he typed was as spot-on as Tofu is wrong.

edit: This seems appropriate here: "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before ... he is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way." - Kurt Vonnegut Jr

Hey, you know what? Either elaborate intelligently and rationally about precisely how I am wrong or take a fxxxing seat. How about you be a sport, hunker down, actually read my posts (instead of assuming you know I must be wrong), quote them as need be, and point out, coherently, my errors. Vonnegut would smack you in the face with his cock if he knew you invoked his name and quote inappropriately.

I just googled Sealyham terrier, lol, not the dog I battled. Chester looked more like a bull-dog, well over 50 pounds, bent a stout choker collar when he bit it during one of our battles. Must have been a mix or mutt. Owner insisted he was a rare breed and there was a rescue society trying to keep the breed alive. She was psycho. Awesome cook though, she paid me in food.

I do not give an aerial fornication about what kid of dog this allegedly was, or about your little story. It is neither relevant, nor illustrative. Germane concrete first-hand experiences would be helpful. Telling me about an attack dog who wanted to eat you is no more helpful than me telling you about the little Cocker Spaniel my aunt had when I was growing up who used to piddle on herself if you looked directly at her. Irrelevant.

 

[scottm]

Heh, your desperation to be right is fun to poke at when you're obviously wrong and can't admit it.

 

[Johnnymiz]

tofu, I'm going to make an observation.

if a large group thinks you are constantly wrong or are a douchebag, but YOU think everyone is wrong or picking on you, odds are, the group is correct

and have a nice day