deisel engine

[lacruiser]

I had no idea the oil was that critical. Not that I have read up too much on the Toyota diesel motors. Not calling BS, but doesn't seem to lend itself to bulletproof longevity if you have to have such specialized oil. How do people outside Japan source their oil? Does someone in the Middle East or South America import oil from Japan just for thier diesel powered Toyotas? Just curious, not trying to start anything, I am genuinely curious, that is just how my brain works. Sorry.

No common rail injection for me, I have a 7.3l International motor, so it uses the HEUI injection system. Essentially there is a high pressure oil pump that drives the injectors. That is why the oil change interval (at 15 quarts) is so often on a PSD vs. 10-15k on a Cummins. The oil gets worked very hard, it not only lubes the motor but it gets pushed to 2500lbs to fire the injectors.

Jack

OK, the main reason is the original big end bearings installed on these motors would fail after a relatively short time, quite often catastrophically. These motors all need to have the original bearings replaced with aftermarket bearings, and that issue goes away. even a couple of instances on the FT motors too.

This became such a big problem in OZ with the 1HD-T engine that toyota, after much pressure, reluctantly agreed to a "silent recall" similiar to the one that was forced onto them here in the US regarding the failure of the 3.0 L V6 head gaskets

The beb were made of some funky alloy that was unique to these engines, turned out to be a bad idea, prone to flaking and de-lamination of the bearing surface down to the substrate and eventually failing, usually at speed under load with no warning.

The problem was not as bad in japan as other places, reason being the japanese spec oil was different. the oil sold in OZ and EU had different additives that didn't protect these particular engines as well as the japanese oil.

Also, there are some differences in diesel engine design, US vs European vs Japan. things like piston dome thickenss that affects transfer of heat through the piston to the oil. Things like clearance from piston to cylinder, above the top ring.

I'd been reading about the BEB failures for years when I bought my truck. First thing I asked the PO was if he'd changed the bearings. No. But he'd run AMSOIL it's entire life. when I bought the truck, engine had around 300K miles on it. These things had been often failing at under 100K miles. I didnt know about the amsoil being good for the engine at that time, so I was plenty worried on the drive home. I parked it until I got the parts in hand. Yanked the pan, pulled the bearings, they were all fine except number 6 which had the very first signs of failure. They could have gone another 100K probably before they went. full on factory-new spec compression numbers as well The rest of the engine looked new inside, so I was pretty impressed. I attributed it to the oil.

It was shortly afterward that I ran into a guy on one of the diesel lists, lives in NZ. He is a "tribologist" and had studied this issue extensively as it regards these 1H series engines. He sent me links to publications explaining the differences in engine construction and the differences in lubrication requirements for each. It's quite a long read, believe me.

That's the very very short story.

 

[WILLD420]

Sounds like they were using babbit type bearings. They were really popular until the late 50's. The soft lead is good at being able to embed dirt, but would flake and fail if you changed oil types.

When I was a kid the old timers would have a fit if you put car oil in the old trucks, they claimed the bearings would fail and they sometimes did.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Sounds like they were using babbit type bearings. They were really popular until the late 50's. The soft lead is good at being able to embed dirt, but would flake and fail if you changed oil types.

When I was a kid the old timers would have a fit if you put car oil in the old trucks, they claimed the bearings would fail and they sometimes did.

I had no idea what a Babbitt bearing was so I did a little googling
Here is the best link I found
Babbitt Bearings Information on GlobalSpec

 

[thumper]

I am glad I am still in the pondering stage of my thoughts on this. I would love to have a diesel in my LX, that would be so...interesting. Reading this I learned quite a bit about the Toyota diesels that I didn't know before. So, if the popular conversion is the 4cyl cummins version, do many do the 6cyl version? I know this has more hp/tq and maybe therefore better for our heavier trucks? Plans, thoughts, dreams, all running through one's head. Then the reality of buying a SC and tossing it on there and being happy with that. I know that my truck sure could use some more power and not really sure how to get it other than a engine swap or a SC. The idea of buying a diesel truck from Canada never occurred to me. Is this something that can be done in Nevada? I know we couldn't in California.

jon.

 

[krokarthecrooked]

Well Thumper anyone can buy a deisel rig from Canada and have it exported to the Us what im looking at is putting a 4.2 liter inline 6 turbo deisel in my 80 and yes Toyota does make this engine but in going to have to do my homework and source the engine and possibly the trans as well but that remains to be seen. As heavy as the 80 is i just dont think it would be beneficial to put a 4cyl turbo deisel in it for a Mini or a 4 runner the 4 cyl would be fine but for the heavy 80 series i think it would be more prudent to source out a 6 cyl turbo diesel for it as you would have more HP/Torque than the 4 cyl but thats just my thoughts on it it will give better MPG but im not looking at that as much as the towing power that the turbo diesel will give me all in all i think if i can get 19 to 20+ Mpg im doing better than most and if it drops to say 12 to 16 mpg while towing then im ahead of the game but thats my thinking and im not sure on the MPG just guessing at this point. so first things first source a diesel engine then do my homework and go from there we will have to see the pro's and con's of doing this and what it will take to do money wise and time wise i will be keeping everyone in the loop as i do all this ist not somethin im going to just jump into i will be doing lots of research and so on. And yes you can in Cali as well as Nevada but in Cali you will have to make sure it will pass emissions i beleive not sure how that works on the Diesel motors in Cali.

Dan

 

[lacruiser]

I haven't driven one of the 4BT conversions, but they are a 4 liter engine and the Toyota TD six is a 4.2. The cummins can be easily fueled up and will perform quite will with the 80. I've heard stores they will hold 70 or 75 mph over the big mountain passes. The down side is they are apparently VERY loud. I don't know how loud, but supposedly so much so that proffitt does a sound mat application when they do the conversion, and even then they are loud. It may be because the engine is fueled up and gets louder, I don't know.

One other thing that you need to keep in mind when you look for diesels. There are basically two different kinds. Direct injection and indirect injection. The latter is the older, it's the 3B ,2H, the 1HZ engines. This is where there is a small pre-chamber that has a small port going to the main combustion chamber. the fuel is injected into this pre-chamber, the compression ignites it there, and the flame front travels through the port into the main combustion chamber. It's an effective system, but it's very old technology, and rather inefficient. it also limits the engine when it comes to turbo because the amount of air going back and forth through that little port is limited.

The other type, direct injection, is pretty much all the modern engines. This is where the fuel is injected directly into the main combustion chamber, there is no pre-chamber. Much more efficient, a bit louder, and you can turbo the hell out of those motors, some run 40 psi, or on race motors, much more. This is the 1HD-T, 1HD-FT and 1HD-FTE engines.

I also forgot the mention the importance of monitorng the exhaust gas temperatures on these turbo diesels. The engine in my truck has a temp probe right after the turbo. When I get climbing up a big mountain pass, the power will be there, but I sometimes (often) have to back off because the temps get so high, I'm afraid of melting something. This is true of any turbo vehicle, not just diesels, btw. I won't allow my post-turbo egt to get much over 950° F for any length of time. If I was to intstall an intercooler this problem would most likely disappear, as the intake charge is greatly cooled so the output temp of the engine is correspondingly cooler.

Overall, my impression of the diesel is a plus. I really love the offroad performance and economy, and that makes all the other BS worthwhile. The onroad performance is less than the gas motors, but not horribly so. And I bought this thing for offroad use, not because it's any kind of Porsche.

 

[thumper]

so, i can just go start browing for a 80 series diesel in Canada and bring it back? thought there were rules/regulations making it hard. ive not done much research into that as i always thought it was impossible. i would rather have a complete/running vehicle vs. doing a engine swap, although i still like the idea of a lexus diesel


jon

 

[lacruiser]

so, i can just go start browing for a 80 series diesel in Canada and bring it back? thought there were rules/regulations making it hard. ive not done much research into that as i always thought it was impossible. i would rather have a complete/running vehicle vs. doing a engine swap, although i still like the idea of a lexus diesel


jon

the canadian 80 diesels are Japanese imports, so they are RHD, kind of a PITA to drive here, if you ask me. Of course if your goal is to swap over the guts into a US truck, that's one way to do it.

I don't know how hard it is to bring one over. The body is essentially the same as the 80 sold here, but the diesel is another matter.

Our laws allow us to bring in anything after it's 25 years old, canadians can bring in anything after it's 15 years old, that's why you're seeing all those JDM imports up there nowadays.

 

[thumper]

Right hand drive, I could get used tto that. I learned how to shift gears as a passenger in my stepdad's 87 4runner lol. I was very good at it. I think i might look into this further.

jon.

 

[WILLD420]

The 4bt's are very noisy. It's the nature of the beast, they don't run balance shafts or any fancy stuff to make them quiet. They are a DI engine, and were not made for NVH reduction, they were made for bread trucks etc.

I believe they are only a 3.9 liter engine. Not sure. The 6 cylinder is a 5.9 liter.

 

[krokarthecrooked]

Well like i said i will be looking for that 4.2 liter turbo deisel that toyota makes also Wlld420 they make a 4 cyl turbo deisel that they put in the 4 runners but it gonna be a matter of sourcing these motors I also know that they make a 5 cyl turbo diesel industrial motor so its just a matter of what you want and sourcing this motor or rig

Dan

 

[seal13il]

Figure you're gonna get about 19 to 21 MPG highway with a 1HD-T engine in good tune, on a stock 80. If you get more, great, but that's pretty much an average. I don't know what that will change to with a towed item. City driving will be in the mid-teens.

If you can find a 1HD-FT (24 valve), the MPG will go up, but it varies also. I've heard as high as 30, but that's kinda rare. I'd think 25 is more likely.

If you start adding tires, you'll see the economy drop and power will drop quite a bit too, if you don't re-gear, as the diesel is much more sensitive to ratio issues. When I went from my stock tires to the 33's I have now, the miles dropped about 1-2 mpg with no other changes. I'm getting around 18 on the highway as an average, and that's doing about 75 mph or 80 mph. I've got Toyo MT, rather heavy tires with a fair amount of rolling resistance.

The diesel is cool, it really excels offroad when compared to the gas trucks. I can do twice the distance in low range compared to the gas trucks. I've never had to use my jerrycans when I've been on expedition trips, when the gasser 80's were all emptying thiers. It also has that way-down torque which is awesome for crawling.

They are maintenance intesnsive. You must change oil often. And I don't care what anyone tells you, you MUST use a high-quality synthetic (AMSOIL) if you want the (Toyota TD) engine to last. You really can't fudge on oil changes like you can on a gas truck. The engine will wear very quickly if you do because the oil gets full of soot rather quickly. The oil really needs to be changed every 3000 miles on the T motors, I understand you can get a bit more out of the FT engines. You also need to keep the fuel very clean, so fuel filter changes are also a must. These have timing belts that must be changed every 60,000 miles, and it's STRONGLY recommend to also change the tensioner at the same time.

Injectors need to be removed and serviced every 60,000 miles, if you want to maintain efficiency. the pumps are good for about 150,000 miles average.

You MUST use a fuel additive if you want the injection pump to last, as the newer ULSD will not provide adequate lubrication for the pumps.

I don't have an intercooler on my truck because I'm going to be doing a 1HD-FT conversion on a 97 80 that I have, and I'm going to be doing the intercooler on that truck. However, I've heard that the IC will also perform wonders on the T motors as well, so that's an excellent upgrade to consider on any TD. They also respond very favorably to low-restriction exhaust sytems (like 3" on the 80's)

HTH

Dana

my prado had the 24v TD with auto trans, 2 door body way lighter than the FZJ i think my avg was about 7-8 km per liter X 3.9 and 1.6 km/mile u get the answer.....my Nissan Patrol (size as the FZJ) might be even a bit bigger, I was getting about 6 KM per liter...hope it gives u an idea.....