deisel engine

[krokarthecrooked]

Ok gang this is my thought im looking for a turbo deisel to go in the 80 and also prolly gonna do the 2x kit so i can get off that front axle reason for these changes is fuel economy and towing power i think with the 4:88's and a turbo diesel it will preform much better. now mind you it did well but i think it will do alot abetter once these are done. Any suggestions or thoughts would be greatly appreciated Thankz



Dan

 

[WILLD420]

Why not buy a 2wd 3/4 ton that will do the job at 1/2 the price and 2x's better.

 

[krokarthecrooked]

the reason i dont buy a truck is the expense of buying a rig and a truck dose not really siut my purposes the 80 was awsome because of room and comfort for the trip and someone can lay down in the back while traveling. i have thought about a quad cab Taco or Tundra but there again it boils down to what i have and what i can spend in lesser amounts to accomplish my goals verses a big expense of buying a new rig to do these things.


Dan

 

[slvrbck]

I know a guy that put a Cummins in his wifeys 4Runner...you can find him on the boards as Trupster415. He had to brace up the frame alot, because of the torque twist, but it's pretty bitchin'!

 

[krokarthecrooked]

Well if i decide to go with a cummins ill be looking at his build thread closley ive seen that rig and its pretty impressive but i would like to go with a Toyota turbo or mercedes maybe either way should be a heck of a rig when i get done but will be abit in doing this at least for now anyway



Dan

 

[rusty_tlc]

Proffittis has a nice pro/cons page

HERE THIS IS A LINK

 

[locrwln1]

Dan, the problem is that none of the Toyota diesels are easy to come by. The only readily available diesel is the Cummins 4bt that will fit into an 80 series engine bay without a ton of work. Look around on 'Mud and you will see posts about the conversions and they even pop up for sale occasionally. Still not the perfect motor, but one of the best for putting into a smaller rigs like an 80.

Here is a link to a whole forum dedicated to swapping 4bt's.

Cummins 4BT & Diesel Conversions Forums - Powered by vBulletin

Still not going to be cheap or easy.

Jack

 

[krokarthecrooked]

i didnt figure it would be cheap or easy to do but i think the pro's will out weigh the cons by far if i end up getting 20 to 30 mpg out of it empty then i should stay right around 15 mpg with a load and should have much greater towing power with it it will take me some time to get everything lined up and bought but i think it will be a great rig once done and should be just as dependable if not more so with a deisel engine. but as i said i will be looking at all my options and doing alot of research on this swap so we will see what happens



Dan

 

[rusty_tlc]

Dan, the problem is that none of the Toyota diesels is that they are easy to come by. The only readily available diesel is the Cummins 4bt that will fit into an 80 series engine bay without a ton of work. Look around on 'Mud and you will see posts about the conversions and they even pop up for sale occasionally. Still not the perfect motor, but one of the best for putting into a smaller rigs like an 80.

Here is a link to a whole forum dedicated to swapping 4bt's.

Cummins 4BT & Diesel Conversions Forums - Powered by vBulletin

Still not going to be cheap or easy.

Jack

Understood, I was just posting a link to the Proffittis site, wait a second, was your post for me?

 

[krokarthecrooked]

Actually it was for both you and Jack Rusty and im doing some serious looking around before i make this jump hehe


Dan

 

[locrwln1]

FallonDan,

Not sure if you saw this thread, I don't necessarily believe that your mileage will improve quite as much, but I would think unhooking the smog pump and plugging the lines, might get you some improvements.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/308786-desmog-92-fj80-huge-mpg-increase.html

I know you say aren't too concerned with the price of the diesel conversion, but remember your "return on investment" is going to take a long, long time. If you can get some improvements out of the mighty 3fe, you can put a whole lot of gas into the LC before you will ever see a saving in the mileage.

The part-time kit might give you 1 mpg, if you are lucky.

You have to come to the same conclusion I have, it's a LC and it's going to be slow and use a lot of gas. Besides your new 4.88's would be geared way too low for a slow revving diesel. Just saying.

Jack

 

[krokarthecrooked]

yes that is prolly true and i have been looking at the possibilty of just buying an export rig from canada and so far they are about 15,000 for one thats in good shape and yes i do realize that it will take along time for any return on the deal. also i will be adding at least 33 inch tires to the 80 and that should help out some with the gearing and i still have my stock gears so if the 4:88's become a problem i can change them out but like i said this is something that is going to take alot of homework and thought before i jump into it. I do very much appreciate all advice and input if i didnt i would not have posted this up and asked for y'alls thoughts on this conversion. and yes i might not get that much improvement on my mileage but i should be able to pull at least 18 to 20 im hoping that is somethin else ill be looking into but will have to see. Lots of Homework for me hehe



Dan

 

[WILLD420]

I would second the whole look closely before you jump thing.

I've got a cummins in a Dodge 3/4 ton with lift and 34's. On a good tank it will average 16-17 empty. With my toyhauler on the back, it gets about 6-8 depending on where we take it. I believe most of the issue is the gears, it has 3.55's in it with an auto trans, but it's still not worth the $$$ of making a conversion if that's the end goal.

Several things against the 80 right off the bat. It's heavy for the axles under it, and under braked for towing anything more than 5-6K lbs. It's made for comfort, not work. There is no way you will ever be able to put enough radiator in it to keep a hard working diesel cool. Maybe a 4bt that only hauls a small trailer, but not a 10K lb trailer with a rig and toys loaded up.

I know what it's like to have a lack of $$, but I'll tell you right now from doing this type of thing several times and getting the scars and heartache to go with it, that it's better to pony up the $$$ and buy what you need, rather than make it.

It's one thing to build a wheeling rig, quite another to build a tow rig.

No amount of working on a 1/2 ton suspension and axles, will ever bring the satisfaction that a factory 3/4 or 1 ton rig will bring.

I would look seriously at an excursion if you want sleeping quarters. Or an older type tow rig with a sleeper conversion on the back. There's one in Winemucca on craigslist for a song and a dance, been there awhile. It won't be a Cummins or Duramax, but those old 6.9 Fords are all but bulletproof.

 

[krokarthecrooked]

i deff agree but as i wont be hauling like 5 to 6 k pretty much all the time most i haul with it is about 2 to 2500 pounds and that would be my adventure trailer fully loaded with gear and such not even sure it gets that heavy but prolly pretty close and i am not totally sold on doing this conversion yet like i said ALOT of Homework before i jump but in the end i my not do this either and if i do do this conversion ill be looking for the 4.2 liter inline 6 Toyota turbo deisel as it is installed in the 80 series cruisers in Canada and prolly Australia as well but thats another thing ill be doing home work on as well so well see what happens and if i do the conversion or just buy a 80 series out of Canada with the deisel already in it from the factory.And Jack i may very well be doing that smog pump removel as well


Dan

 

[locrwln1]

Dan,

Have you checked with Spectre Off Road? They were doing "half cuts" on trucks out of Australia and the Middle East. Basically they cut the rig in half right about the driver's seat and have the whole front end, so that you get pretty much every thing you need from the "donor" rig for the conversion. Again, not cheap, I think somewhere around 10-12k for an 80 series half cut. Has been awhile since I looked, not even sure he has any left.

I am glad to hear that you are going to do your homework.

Jack

 

[lacruiser]

Figure you're gonna get about 19 to 21 MPG highway with a 1HD-T engine in good tune, on a stock 80. If you get more, great, but that's pretty much an average. I don't know what that will change to with a towed item. City driving will be in the mid-teens.

If you can find a 1HD-FT (24 valve), the MPG will go up, but it varies also. I've heard as high as 30, but that's kinda rare. I'd think 25 is more likely.

If you start adding tires, you'll see the economy drop and power will drop quite a bit too, if you don't re-gear, as the diesel is much more sensitive to ratio issues. When I went from my stock tires to the 33's I have now, the miles dropped about 1-2 mpg with no other changes. I'm getting around 18 on the highway as an average, and that's doing about 75 mph or 80 mph. I've got Toyo MT, rather heavy tires with a fair amount of rolling resistance.

The diesel is cool, it really excels offroad when compared to the gas trucks. I can do twice the distance in low range compared to the gas trucks. I've never had to use my jerrycans when I've been on expedition trips, when the gasser 80's were all emptying thiers. It also has that way-down torque which is awesome for crawling.

They are maintenance intesnsive. You must change oil often. And I don't care what anyone tells you, you MUST use a high-quality synthetic (AMSOIL) if you want the (Toyota TD) engine to last. You really can't fudge on oil changes like you can on a gas truck. The engine will wear very quickly if you do because the oil gets full of soot rather quickly. The oil really needs to be changed every 3000 miles on the T motors, I understand you can get a bit more out of the FT engines. You also need to keep the fuel very clean, so fuel filter changes are also a must. These have timing belts that must be changed every 60,000 miles, and it's STRONGLY recommend to also change the tensioner at the same time.

Injectors need to be removed and serviced every 60,000 miles, if you want to maintain efficiency. the pumps are good for about 150,000 miles average.

You MUST use a fuel additive if you want the injection pump to last, as the newer ULSD will not provide adequate lubrication for the pumps.

I don't have an intercooler on my truck because I'm going to be doing a 1HD-FT conversion on a 97 80 that I have, and I'm going to be doing the intercooler on that truck. However, I've heard that the IC will also perform wonders on the T motors as well, so that's an excellent upgrade to consider on any TD. They also respond very favorably to low-restriction exhaust sytems (like 3" on the 80's)

HTH

Dana

 

[locrwln1]

Wow, I am a huge TD fan, but those numbers you provided...suck. My PSD in my sig, will pull 17.5 mpg empty doing 80mph. If I only do 70 mpg, it will pull 19 in summer 18 on winter fuel. That is on a truck that scales at just shy of 8000lbs.

I have to change the oil at 5k intervals, which is the same interval I follow on my FZJ80 and I use Delo 400 in both. I change the fuel filter out (PSD) at 15k intervals. That is it.

The offroad mileage is probably pretty good compared to my 80 fully loaded, I have had two pretty serious expeditions this last summer that put me at about 10mpg on one and as low as 8 (lot of low range) on another.

On the highway, I have seen as much as 16.5mpg with my 80 with the cruise at 65mph.

Jack

Figure you're gonna get about 19 to 21 MPG highway with a 1HD-T engine in good tune, on a stock 80. If you get more, great, but that's pretty much an average. I don't know what that will change to with a towed item. City driving will be in the mid-teens.

If you can find a 1HD-FT (24 valve), the MPG will go up, but it varies also. I've heard as high as 30, but that's kinda rare. I'd think 25 is more likely.

If you start adding tires, you'll see the economy drop and power will drop quite a bit too, if you don't re-gear, as the diesel is much more sensitive to ratio issues. When I went from my stock tires to the 33's I have now, the miles dropped about 1-2 mpg with no other changes. I'm getting around 18 on the highway as an average, and that's doing about 75 mph or 80 mph. I've got Toyo MT, rather heavy tires with a fair amount of rolling resistance.

The diesel is cool, it really excels offroad when compared to the gas trucks. I can do twice the distance in low range compared to the gas trucks. I've never had to use my jerrycans when I've been on expedition trips, when the gasser 80's were all emptying thiers. It also has that way-down torque which is awesome for crawling.

They are maintenance intesnsive. You must change oil often. And I don't care what anyone tells you, you MUST use a high-quality synthetic (AMSOIL) if you want the (Toyota TD) engine to last. You really can't fudge on oil changes like you can on a gas truck. The engine will wear very quickly if you do because the oil gets full of soot rather quickly. The oil really needs to be changed every 3000 miles on the T motors, I understand you can get a bit more out of the FT engines. You also need to keep the fuel very clean, so fuel filter changes are also a must. These have timing belts that must be changed every 60,000 miles, and it's STRONGLY recommend to also change the tensioner at the same time.

Injectors need to be removed and serviced every 60,000 miles, if you want to maintain efficiency. the pumps are good for about 150,000 miles average.

You MUST use a fuel additive if you want the injection pump to last, as the newer ULSD will not provide adequate lubrication for the pumps.

I don't have an intercooler on my truck because I'm going to be doing a 1HD-FT conversion on a 97 80 that I have, and I'm going to be doing the intercooler on that truck. However, I've heard that the IC will also perform wonders on the T motors as well, so that's an excellent upgrade to consider on any TD. They also respond very favorably to low-restriction exhaust sytems (like 3" on the 80's)

HTH

Dana

 

[krokarthecrooked]

Thats cool Thank you for the info was wandering where your sourcing your engines at as im am going to be looking around for one and doing lots of homework i get about 16 to 17 with no load at about 68 mph now but towing it drops to about 8 to 12 miles to the gallon maybe less maybe a little more. and yes i do know diesel engines are a little more picky about maintenance no worries there




Dan

 

[lacruiser]

Wow, I am a huge TD fan, but those numbers you provided...suck. My PSD in my sig, will pull 17.5 mpg empty doing 80mph. If I only do 70 mpg, it will pull 19 in summer 18 on winter fuel. That is on a truck that scales at just shy of 8000lbs.

I have to change the oil at 5k intervals, which is the same interval I follow on my FZJ80 and I use Delo 400 in both. I change the fuel filter out (PSD) at 15k intervals. That is it.

The offroad mileage is probably pretty good compared to my 80 fully loaded, I have had two pretty serious expeditions this last summer that put me at about 10mpg on one and as low as 8 (lot of low range) on another.

On the highway, I have seen as much as 16.5mpg with my 80 with the cruise at 65mph.

Jack

Yeah, compared to other diesels, the Toyota's aren't exactly top of the heap when it comes to economy!


The reason the oil is so critical on the toyota TD is because they are built to run on Japanese-spec oils with a certain additive package that protects the engine. The US-spec oils don't contain the same additives, and the engine will suffer. This all sounds like a bunch of hooey, but I've read so much about this issue on these engines, I could almost write a book about it. The only oil that's avaialble here that satisfies this requirement is the AMSOIL, which is not cheap! I wish I could run delo in mine (I do in my BJ42) but it's been pretty well documented over time that the oil is critical to these engines.

I think these diesels are only about 30% more efficient than a gas engine, so the numbers you quote aren't too far off. My average is approx 20 mpg with the stock tires (18 with the bigger ones), and if the average cruiser does 15 mpg hwy, then that's about the 30% difference.

Also, this is old technology here. It's a fully mechanical injection pump, you've got a compter-controlled common rail system, quite a bit more efficient than the older stuff.

If you're looking only at fuel economy as a reason to do the swap, you'd be going a long long time (or many many miles) to see payback, and that makes it a poor investment.

However, the other factors are the reason that folks go with these engines.

 

[locrwln1]

I had no idea the oil was that critical. Not that I have read up too much on the Toyota diesel motors. Not calling BS, but doesn't seem to lend itself to bulletproof longevity if you have to have such specialized oil. How do people outside Japan source their oil? Does someone in the Middle East or South America import oil from Japan just for thier diesel powered Toyotas? Just curious, not trying to start anything, I am genuinely curious, that is just how my brain works. Sorry.

No common rail injection for me, I have a 7.3l International motor, so it uses the HEUI injection system. Essentially there is a high pressure oil pump that drives the injectors. That is why the oil change interval (at 15 quarts) is so often on a PSD vs. 10-15k on a Cummins. The oil gets worked very hard, it not only lubes the motor but it gets pushed to 2500lbs to fire the injectors.

Jack

Yeah, compared to other diesels, the Toyota's aren't exactly top of the heap when it comes to economy!


The reason the oil is so critical on the toyota TD is because they are built to run on Japanese-spec oils with a certain additive package that protects the engine. The US-spec oils don't contain the same additives, and the engine will suffer. This all sounds like a bunch of hooey, but I've read so much about this issue on these engines, I could almost write a book about it. The only oil that's avaialble here that satisfies this requirement is the AMSOIL, which is not cheap! I wish I could run delo in mine (I do in my BJ42) but it's been pretty well documented over time that the oil is critical to these engines.

I think these diesels are only about 30% more efficient than a gas engine, so the numbers you quote aren't too far off. My average is approx 20 mpg with the stock tires (18 with the bigger ones), and if the average cruiser does 15 mpg hwy, then that's about the 30% difference.

Also, this is old technology here. It's a fully mechanical injection pump, you've got a compter-controlled common rail system, quite a bit more efficient than the older stuff.

If you're looking only at fuel economy as a reason to do the swap, you'd be going a long long time (or many many miles) to see payback, and that makes it a poor investment.

However, the other factors are the reason that folks go with these engines.