Considering joining the LC family (1 Viewer)

[hbar]

Hey y'all. Looking at a 2013 LC. I've always liked them, and the reputation seems to be that they run forever. But at the same time I'm old enough to remember a time where most (many? some?) people would never consider buying a used car with 150k miles on it, and certainly they wouldn't pay $30k+ for such a "worn out" vehicle. So I've got my biases and related concerns, but $30k & 150k is exactly what I'm looking at. Would love you guys to put my mind at ease. I've read a bunch of the common repairs threads, etc, and it doesn't seem like anything too major goes wrong. FWIW, $30k is under KBB, which doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot but it's a data point. It seems just a little too cheap which makes me double down on my concerns.

As background, I'm a jeep guy. I have a pair of TJ's that I do 100% of my own work on. Haven't had to tear into an engine before, but water pump, timing chain etc are no problem. Suspension no prob. I've rebuilt two automatic transmissions, torn open several transfer cases. Done plenty of deep harness repairs. So I'm not too too afraid of stuff going wrong, but on the jeeps I have the benefit of a strong DIY wrenching community, and I don't know if the LC community has that same thing. I also have the benefit of having the factory service manual with every repair procedure & wiring diagrams, and unending YouTubers showing how to do virtually every repair imaginable. I'm scared to move into a world where that doesn't exist to the same degree.

I did manage to get a quick look at the thing just as the lot was closing. It's at one of those shady buy here pay here lots but they do have some nice stuff on their lot...so they have some degree of credibility, and they're not one of the places that ONLY does financing, but I don't love that sort of operation. Body looks great, interior looks like a car with 30k on the clock, not 150k. Underneath...I see some surface rust on the frame. But I wasn't able to get a great look. Maybe it's more than surface rust? Obviously I'm going to RUN from rust problems. Do these frames typically have any rust problems? I don't have the carfax (these lots don't typically have them afaik), but I do have 2 more that I've paid for but haven't used yet...will probably break down and use one on this LC to see where it has spent it's life. Maybe it's a MN car and there is salt piled into the frame rails. Or maybe it's a TX car and it really is just surface and I'm overreacting.

While this would be my daily driver (work from home so I don't drive all that much), but I've also zeroed in on the LC as something that can tow my TJ on a trailer. The tow capacity is right, trailer should weigh about 2000lbs, Jeep weighs like 3300 lbs. I've read the towing thread (well, not all 60 pages), but it seems like although the LC has a relatively short wheelbase, it's a-ok to tow this sort of setup (with the appropriate tow gear). The only other option seems to be a pickup, but I also have 5 kids so the 3rd row is going to be handy.

Ok, that's a lot for my first post. TL;DR- $30k is a lot to spend on a car with a ton of miles, I'm unsure about the DIY repair support community, it *may* have some rust on the frame, and I need it to be able to tow my TJ but don't know a lot about towing. Need you to convince me it's a solid investment that will last me another 150k miles. Pick a topic from that to discuss with me.

 

[AnyMal]

Hey y'all. Looking at a 2013 LC. I've always liked them, and the reputation seems to be that they run forever. But at the same time I'm old enough to remember a time where most (many? some?) people would never consider buying a used car with 150k miles on it, and certainly they wouldn't pay $30k+ for such a "worn out" vehicle. So I've got my biases and related concerns, but $30k & 150k is exactly what I'm looking at. Would love you guys to put my mind at ease. I've read a bunch of the common repairs threads, etc, and it doesn't seem like anything too major goes wrong. FWIW, $30k is under KBB, which doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot but it's a data point. It seems just a little too cheap which makes me double down on my concerns.

As background, I'm a jeep guy. I have a pair of TJ's that I do 100% of my own work on. Haven't had to tear into an engine before, but water pump, timing chain etc are no problem. Suspension no prob. I've rebuilt two automatic transmissions, torn open several transfer cases. Done plenty of deep harness repairs. So I'm not too too afraid of stuff going wrong, but on the jeeps I have the benefit of a strong DIY wrenching community, and I don't know if the LC community has that same thing. I also have the benefit of having the factory service manual with every repair procedure & wiring diagrams, and unending YouTubers showing how to do virtually every repair imaginable. I'm scared to move into a world where that doesn't exist to the same degree.

I did manage to get a quick look at the thing just as the lot was closing. It's at one of those shady buy here pay here lots but they do have some nice stuff on their lot...so they have some degree of credibility, and they're not one of the places that ONLY does financing, but I don't love that sort of operation. Body looks great, interior looks like a car with 30k on the clock, not 150k. Underneath...I see some surface rust on the frame. But I wasn't able to get a great look. Maybe it's more than surface rust? Obviously I'm going to RUN from rust problems. Do these frames typically have any rust problems? I don't have the carfax (these lots don't typically have them afaik), but I do have 2 more that I've paid for but haven't used yet...will probably break down and use one on this LC to see where it has spent it's life. Maybe it's a MN car and there is salt piled into the frame rails. Or maybe it's a TX car and it really is just surface and I'm overreacting.

While this would be my daily driver (work from home so I don't drive all that much), but I've also zeroed in on the LC as something that can tow my TJ on a trailer. The tow capacity is right, trailer should weigh about 2000lbs, Jeep weighs like 3300 lbs. I've read the towing thread (well, not all 60 pages), but it seems like although the LC has a relatively short wheelbase, it's a-ok to tow this sort of setup (with the appropriate tow gear). The only other option seems to be a pickup, but I also have 5 kids so the 3rd row is going to be handy.

Ok, that's a lot for my first post. TL;DR- $30k is a lot to spend on a car with a ton of miles, I'm unsure about the DIY repair support community, it *may* have some rust on the frame, and I need it to be able to tow my TJ but don't know a lot about towing. Need you to convince me it's a solid investment that will last me another 150k miles. Pick a topic from that to discuss with me.

$30k is cheap and 150k is conservatively only about half its life. Its the mods thatll get you.

Get us some pics of the frame, run carfax and take it to a competent mechanic.

Then pull that trigger and join the club. Ive got my gripes but just gonna say nothing like that car will ever be built again. Its a relic, and that’s a good thing generally.

 

[Pierce]

You are probably 5-10 years away from the 200 crowd on this forum having detailed repair guides. I spend most of my time on the 80 series forum and it has tons of information on most systems. I don’t know how long ih8mud has been around but they’ve had at least 15 years of the 80 series being affordable so they’ve been able to accumulate information. Who knows if the 200 will ever be a budget wheeler.

Next topic… 150k miles on the 200 is no big deal. I have 207k on my 97 and 130k on my 2016. My dad has 200k on his 100. No major issues. I think the main enemy of the LC is disuse to a degree. If the interior looks good and the exterior/undercarriage looks good then it’s probably fine.

One thing that may surprise you is the LC and especially 200 series mods are very expensive compared to anything TJ. You could probably buy another TJ for what it costs to moderately build any generation of LC.

Towing … no clue… most of the guys that write about towing talk about and anti sway hitches being very handy and air bags in the rear coils being standard for towing.

I really like the 200. It does nearly everything better than the previous generations minus simplicity and girth.

 

[ThRiLlGmYr]

The advice I was given is that the one deal breaker is rust. Run from rust. Most anything else can be negotiated.

 

[tbisaacs]

Welcome pal! And remember,

 

[tbisaacs]

Welcome pal! And remember,

View attachment 3273611

Just kidding. But seriously, welcome

 

[hbar]

Lol, we wheel the crap out of our jeeps, lots of rocks and whatever. I have no doubt that the LC is plenty capable, but my interest is in comfort, space, and towing capacity. Well and reliability. Plus neither TJ cost me more than $5k so scraping that on the rocks is a little more palatable than potentially rolling a $30k car. But to each his own. I don't know that I'm going to be super interested in mods. Aside from driving down dirt roads to get into the deer woods, the only time it's going to go off pavement is to haul the trailer to the staging area of the offroad park. . I scratch the offroad itch in a different way.

I just realized I don't have the VIN yet anyway, I'll get that tomorrow morning. I'm actually selling my 2012 JKU in favor of whatever I end up getting, and I probably need to sell that first but if it really is the deal I think it is it won't be around long. I may need to take a loan from my wife. The only saving grace is that their typical clientele probably can't afford the 19% interest on a $30k car. You guys have done nothing to make me think this is a bad idea though, so thanks for that. I have a light day tomorrow, I may get down there to look at it. The dealer is like 45 minutes away unless I try to get there after 4pm. Then I might as well rent a helicopter.

 

[grinchy]

Let’s see, I bought a 2009 with 209000 miles for 17,500 five years ago. It’s still going strong at 239700 miles. Same same. They get poor gas mileage. That about the only drawback.

It is most assuredly not a Jeep. I like jeeps. Learned to drive in a 1952 Willy’s with a corvette engine and a flipped frame, whatever that is. Test Drive and you’ll see what I mean.

 

[Redbull]

The less risk involved the more you’ll have to pay. So Lamdcruisers are priced accordingly. You’ll see too that Lexus eventually retains more value than its flashier German counterparts for the same reason.

A 200 series just drives like something forged out of one piece of metal. I cannot imagine how good Toyota could make the car feel if it was unibody.

Those buy here pay here lots sometimes keep nice inventory to pacify buyers. Drive it and inspect it the best you can. best of luck

 

[INTP]

I’m on my second 200 series. My first was a 2008 LC that I got rid of in 2018 with 200k miles. I immediately regretted trading it in.

A year ago I picked up a 2013 LX with 74k miles. I didn’t think it was possible to like a car more than my 08 LC but this LX is amazing.

These 200 series do require a special kind of steward to keep them in tip top shape. I obsessively change the wiper blades with the Denso’s every 6 months. Oil and filter every 5k miles with the TRD filter. I have been using Mobile 1 5W30 but I’m thinking of switching to the Shaffer 9000 in the same weight. I do the cabin and air filter every 10k miles and I keep my used air filters just because I was traumatized as a child from stories of people escaping the Mt. Saint Helens Eruption in 1980 and got stuck from clogged air filters. My wife thinks I’m nuts.

I keep the other fluids changed on a regular schedule, treat any visible surface rust with fluid film at every oil change.

My LX is white so I obsessively keep the door jams clean and treat the gaskets with gummi phluge. The engine bay gets regular cleaning and cleaning the under hood plastics and rubber get regular treatment with 303 Aerospace Protectant.

Lastly I think I operate this vehicle harder than the average LX/LC owner. I live near the DC/Baltimore areas and I’m forced to engage in what my wife calls combat driving. It is the perfect tool for that application.

Edit: I nearly forgot, towing. I have a 2012 210 Boston Whaler Montauk with a 150 Mercury engine. It sits on a Karavan 2 axle trailer. I have a new trailer with proper electric over hydraulic brakes on order. The old Karavan has surge brakes. I tow this thing all over the Eastern Shore of Delaware, Maryland and Va. I has a T-top and radio box so it’s quite a sail in the wind.

It tows it with ease and the shorter wheel base is a benefit at some of the tighter boat ramps. In 2018 I traded in my 2008 LC for a 2018 F250 6.2. It was amazing for towing but an absolute pain in the ass for daily driving.


Good luck with your search, take your time and you can get your hands on a very nice 200 series.

 

[CharlieS]

I don't trust that kind of car sales operation to not cut corners. I prefer private sales, ideally from some extremely obsessive enthusiast or wealthy first owner that never spared a penny on dealer maintenance. Second to that, a Toyota/Lexus dealer, ideally a certified pre owned vehicle, but I don't really trust most dealers either.

The platform is reliable, with a small set of pretty common things like a radiator crack that most of us see eventually.

The fuel economy is poor - it is massively heavy and isn't especially aerodynamic. Economy gets a lot worse as you add weight and gear like racks and bumpers (which you don't plan to do).

They tow fine at reasonable weights and speeds. Yes, if you tow a massive airstream cross country regularly, sure, you might want mods. Otherwise, I've towed all kinds of trailers with a stock suspension (and later with aftermarket springs) and no airbags. From utility trailers, to a 10x16' hemlock timberframe shed kit on a giant trailer, and boats and offroad campers in between.

Expect fewer vendors and most everything to have fewer vendor options at higher prices than anything jeep. The platform sold in low numbers, and we're lucky to have what support we do.

Nearly everything is DIY-able on the 200. You need to dig a bit further to get technical information, but it is available. Some subset of us on this forum do a lot of our own work, and nearly everyone seems to share generously of their experience and knowledge. For those that are less than helpful, check out the "ignore" button/feature.

Also expect a lot of "what ceramic coating" and window tint threads that you'll have when some people have a $80-120k vehicle and some pay experts to build and maintain their rig. In my experience, the 80 forum hit the inflection point long ago where most participants are more hands on, mabe due to affordability?

If you search on this site, or even better, using google with the site keyword, you'll find answers to a lot of questions. The 200 has been around long enough that a lot has been asked and answered previously.

 

[AnyMal]

Let’s see, I bought a 2009 with 209000 miles for 17,500 five years ago. It’s still going strong at 239700 miles. Same same. They get poor gas mileage. That about the only drawback.

It is most assuredly not a Jeep. I like jeeps. Learned to drive in a 1952 Willy’s with a corvette engine and a flipped frame, whatever that is. Test Drive and you’ll see what I mean.

Damn $17.5? You win.
Thats a hell of a deal.

 

[hbar]

Ok, found the VIN & ran it through car fax.

* complete maintenance records. Whoever owned it before didn't do a lick of their own work. Nothing significant. Trans flush, t-case flush, new spark plugs, new battery, wipers.

* Looks like 2 owners, spent the first 150k of its life in CT & VT. That is not what I hoped to see.

Here's where it gets weird:
* in Oct 2021 vehicle offered for sale by a dealer in CT, mileage is only 700 less than it is right now
* Went to auction in Jan 2022
* Re-appears in Chicago later that month
* Illinois dealer titled it Feb 2022
* In May 2022, it shows up for sale in Texas with roughly the current mileage (70 miles less then current).

Obviously I didn't want to see any time in the NE, so that's a red flag. Going to auction is a potential red flag based on some stuff I read here. The fact that the mileage hasn't really changed since October 2021 is weird. The fact that it has no records whatsoever and essentially hasn't been driven since it was listed for sale in May 2022 is weird.

 

[Zill]

I would pass given the fact that you are in Texas and there’s plenty of non-salt contaminated trucks in your area. Patience is the name of the game when it comes to hunting for a solid truck. Rust is the one item which you can’t really fix on these rigs.

 

[hbar]

I know enough to walk away from rust, I need to get under it to see what it actually looks like. You say there are plenty for sale in my area, but I'm not finding that to be true. Or at least not at that price point/miles/condition. Maybe that is because this one is a dud, IDK. There's one up in OKC that could be ok but dealer didn't post any pics of the interior. For my shopping efforts, its this one or nothing (or something completely different).

 

[grinchy]

Patience will be key. These trucks did not sell in high volume. For some years LX+TLC 200s total was around 10,000 total units.

Know what you want, pounce when available.

 

[AnyMal]

Forgetta bout it!

 

[05ls430518]

Welcome all lexus toyota vehicles last a long time with proper maintenance and care. If you do get a LC/LX check the sunroof drain tubes and the passenger kick panel for water damage. So you don't have to foot a huge bill later.

 

[desmocruiser]

Welcome! There are good 200’s to be had in the $30k’s.

I think the biggest adjustment required is to understand Land Cruisers in general are like quality industrial machinery, incredible in their simplicity and for most of us, require enough maintaince to get to know your rig a little better each year!

If you like the throw away qualities of your $5k Jeeps etc., you will quickly loose patience with a Land Cruiser that will eat up an additional $5k with a few days on the forum!

Good Luck, enjoy the ride!

 

[ThRiLlGmYr]

I know enough to walk away from rust, I need to get under it to see what it actually looks like. You say there are plenty for sale in my area, but I'm not finding that to be true. Or at least not at that price point/miles/condition. Maybe that is because this one is a dud, IDK. There's one up in OKC that could be ok but dealer didn't post any pics of the interior. For my shopping efforts, its this one or nothing (or something completely different).

Most 2013 Land Cruisers I have seen lately were priced at a premium. But you can easily find 2013 LX 570s around $30k in good shape.