Completely stalls at stops and low RPMs (1 Viewer)

[bluemax009]

OK.. So I'm new to the game of Land Cruisers. Switched from Land Rovers about 3 months ago because I just got tired of tolerating the persistent unreliability in the engine and chronic electrical issues. Thought a good starter vehicle to get my get feet wet with would be an Fj60 (1986 FJ60). Since I bought it I love it. I've done a few minor things to it, but nothing major. It runs pretty good...except as of late. Since about 1 week ago every time I drive it it stalls out when I come to a stop sign or let the RPMs drop below about 1000. I'm able to nurse it around town by playing with the throttle at red lights and stops sign,but it gets pretty hairy when I'm starting from a hill.
It fires right up with no problems, but dies right away if I don't get on the gas and hold it at a steady idle. The only thing that will keep it going without me playing with the throttle is if I pull the choke out.
I changed plug wires and plugs as well as fuel filter and air filter. Looked at the carburetor adjustment screws thinking maybe if I work with those it will help, but I'm not sure how to do it - or if it's even the problem. I have a local mechanic that has done some work on it, but every time I drop it off he has it for 3 weeks and - imagine this - is extremely hard to get ahold of.
Can anyone here point me in the right direction.

 

[GeologistFelix]

Vacuum leak is my first guess. Probably a large one, if it's not holding idle.

Long story short, the engine is sucking more air than it should because of either a loose/broken vacuum fitting, or the manifold gasket/manifold itself is leaking. This makes it run too lean, which makes it die unless you give it enough throttle to run anyway, or pull the choke, which makes the fuel mix richer, which counteracts the lean mix caused by the vacuum leak.

Simplest test: get a vacuum gauge, and put it on the AC vacuum port, which is the little side port on the fitting for the brake booster's ~1/2" vacuum hose, way towards the firewall side of the engine, kind of between the firewall and the carburetor. The AC port is plumbed directly into the intake manifold, which should have vacuum in the 16-20ish range at idle (or when you have the choke pulled out to keep it idling at 1000-1200 rpms when there's a big leak.)

Cheaper/less likely to give a definitive result: when it's 'idling,' spray WD40 or any other similarly flamable liquid in a spray can on questionable areas in the vacuum system, including along where the intake bolts onto the head. If it causes the engine to race/rev noticeably, you've got a leak there. This method, in my opinion, is better for finding what's leaking when the vacuum gauge test has already confirmed that you *have* a leak.

Wild-assed guess: it might also be the idle-cutoff solenoid (the only electrical plug on the carb!). With the key turned to ignition (but the engine not running), unplug and replug the solenoid's plug. It should fairly noisily engage and disengage when you do so.

 

[Spike Strip]

Search for ICS or Idle Control Solenoid.

 

[bluemax009]

Can't believe how quickly you guys got back with me! On the LR forums it takes days to get some credible feedback. I'll try both recommendations and let you know... Thanks

 

[Spike Strip]

That's because if you go out in a LR, you don't make it home ....

 

[Realultpwr]

Love that saying... 90% o land rovers built are still on the road because they never made it home!!

 

[bluemax009]

So it is a vacum leak. I sprayed a little WD40 near the base of the carb and nothing...then I sprayed it next to the manifold and there was a huge surge. In fact I could see it almost pull the vapor from the can...
Thanks for the tip. Looks like I got some work to do.

 

[GeologistFelix]

When you get the manifolds off, and (gently) scrape all the old gasket material off, get a long straight-edge and check to see if the surfaces are still square, and if there are any deep voids/gouges/etc. The aluminum intake has a tendency to warp, and the exhaust manifold's gasket surface has a tendency to get eroded around the edges of the ports.

Assuming everything is still flat and square, there are differing opinions about the best gasket out there. Some people spray copper gasket sealant on, others double up on OEM style gaskets (most like Felpro the best?), and some do both. I had a pretty ugly set of gasket surfaces, but I didn't use the copper or double up; I just used a single OEM style gasket, and it's been great so far.

The other thing to worry about is getting the exhaust/intake flanges to line up under the bolts. The easiest solution is to just get both of them milled down to match, and that also solves the problem of having a good, flat gasket surface. If they're really far from level (i.e. the intake flange is thinner than the exhaust, or vice versa), the usual solution is cutting half a washer and using it as a shim to get the flanges to the same height.

But, not a problem if you just get the manifolds milled down. I think most machine shops charge ~$100-150.

 

[cruiserAUS]

I had similar issues and it was the engine fuse.

Cheap fix.

 

[ander42b]

[X2 QUOTE=Spike Strip;8572137]Search for ICS or Idle Control Solenoid.[/QUOTE]

You describ the exact same problem I had two years ago. There is a a solenoid that holds the throttle open to allow for the engine to idle. When that solenoid kicks the bucket the engine will not idle unless you pull on the choke or keep your foot lightly on the throttle. The solulation was to have the carburetor re-built. I had my carb re- built by Man-a-fre. After the rebuild the cruiser had a little bit more get and go. Well worth the money.

 

[Glenvan]

Friday I bought an FJ60 with the same problem. It has been a while since I had to use my right foot for both brake and throttle to get it to the garage. I am suspecting it is the manifold as I am smelling exhaust fumes in the cabin and there is an audible sucking sound. The PO says it was working fine until he took it out of storage where it had been the last couple of years. Not sure how a manifold would warp sitting in storage. I'm going to start peeling back the onion today and will report back.

 

[GeologistFelix]

You describ the exact same problem I had two years ago. There is a a solenoid that holds the throttle open to allow for the engine to idle. When that solenoid kicks the bucket the engine will not idle unless you pull on the choke or keep your foot lightly on the throttle. The solulation was to have the carburetor re-built. I had my carb re- built by Man-a-fre. After the rebuild the cruiser had a little bit more get and go. Well worth the money.

Actually, the regular idle speed screw is what holds the throttle open for idle. The solenoid opens a small fuel jet in the primary carb barrel that allows just enough fuel through to idle. The amount that flows is controlled by the idle mix valve on the side of the carb facing the valve cover. The solenoid is supposed to close when the engine shuts off and when decelerating/engine braking, to avoid dieseling and backfiring respectively.

The reason it won't idle under ~1000 rpms with a bad ICS is because that's around how fast you have to spin the engine for the airflow to suck enough fuel out of the main jets.

Also, it's possible to purchase a brand new solenoid, I believe. So, you probably didn't *need* the rebuild to fix the problem, but I'm sure it runs better as a result.

 

[GeologistFelix]

Friday I bought an FJ60 with the same problem. It has been a while since I had to use my right foot for both brake and throttle to get it to the garage. I am suspecting it is the manifold as I am smelling exhaust fumes in the cabin and there is an audible sucking sound. The PO says it was working fine until he took it out of storage where it had been the last couple of years. Not sure how a manifold would warp sitting in storage. I'm going to start peeling back the onion today and will report back.

Three things come to mind:

1. Exhaust smell in the cabin isn't a symptom of a manifold leak necessarily. If it's running poorly, that engine will make a LOT of stink, and some of it will definitely get into the cabin. Also, you should be able to hear an exhaust leak from the manifold/head if it's leaking enough exhaust under the hood to stink up the cabin.

2. If it's got any major vacuum lines loose, that would definitely cause the sucking sound.

3. It's really easy to test if the idle solenoid is functional. Figure that out before you go digging in the vacuum system/unbolting the manifolds.

Speaking of manifolds, one key thing is to soak EVERY nut and bolt with penetrating oil several times over a day or two before you let a wrench/socket touch it. PB blaster is ok, but what I found best was a 50-50 blend of ATF (the regular red kind) and acetone. You have to shake it up before each use, but it worked great for me. I did end up breaking one bolt, though, and had to drill it out and redrill the hole for a larger bolt and then rethread it. Now I have a 7/16th bolt where there used to be an m10...

 

[bluemax009]

So form the posts above it looks like Ive got two seperate, feasible courses of action. One is to attack the manifold/manifold gasket which involves some work and some machining. The other is to go for the solenoid - which by reading the posts means either rebuilding or replacing the carb is my best option.
My experience level with major mechanical repair is about a 6 on a 1-10 scale. Not sure how competent I have to be to try the manifold. Replacing the carb however, I think I can do.
Any suggestions?

 

[Spike Strip]

Actually, you've got two seperate things that need to be done: It only takes about 30 seconds to test if the ICS is working or not. If yes, great, move on to manifold leak. You can do it.

If ICS not working, find out why, fix, then move on to manifold leak. You don't need to replace/rebuild carb for that, though, if you have lots of miles on an original carb, a rebuild by one of the two carb gurus on this board is like a 2F reborn.

Manifold gasket is not really that hard, just vigorous. Even easier if you're in an area where you can desmog.

 

[bluemax009]

OK.. checked the ICS and it is not working..perhaps because one of the wires leading into the female end is severed, . So I'll be replacing that. Either way though the manifold is leaking. So I tore into that today. Not as bad as I thought it would be. Took me about 1 1/2 hours to get all the way down to the upper manifold. I got every nut and bolt off except the two punky bolts under the flat surface the carb sits on. They are threaded in from bottom to top. Once I free those I'll have the upper manifold off and can start on the lower/larger one. Any suggestions on the two bolts? (I already hit them with the PB and will get back after it tomorrow.)

 

[bluemax009]

Also looked into this carb: Weber - WK745 - 32/36 DGEV-TOYOTA LANDCRUISER F Eng
Perhaps just buying a new one altogether will solve alot of the air/fuel problems I'm seeming to have. Any advice on this carb?

 

[GeologistFelix]

Also looked into this carb: Weber - WK745 - 32/36 DGEV-TOYOTA LANDCRUISER F Eng
Perhaps just buying a new one altogether will solve alot of the air/fuel problems I'm seeming to have. Any advice on this carb?

I've never run one, but most who have tried both a Weber and a properly working factory carb prefer the factory one. The Webers really, really don't like hills or going over bumps, both of which seem crucial for a Cruiser.

Anyway, the best middle ground, in my opinion, is a Trollhole carb, if he has any in stock.

 

[Spike Strip]

The Aisan is a superior carb for your 2F/3F engine. If you think you're having problems, have it rebuilt by one of the pros on this board. Will cost the same (or usually less) as a reman from SOR or MAF, or NAPA, even, but will be done right and work so much better.

Jim C. ( FJ40Jim ) in Lancaster, OH
Mark A. (65swb45) in Burbank, CA

Or a Trollhole carb (New Aisan aftermarket copy) - but only if you can desmog motor.

You know, you'd really do yourself a favor by reading the FAQ ... Just sayin' .

Where are you located ?

As for the two difficult manifold bolts - I usually use a long extention with a wobble end.

 

[bluemax009]

OK spike strip.. I followed your advice and checked out the FAQs. There was a ton of information there that I know will help me out in the future and a lot of information that would have answered my previous questions....but....there's no answer for my newest problem.
First, you were right. I did get the intake and exhaust manifolds off. It was alot of nucklebusting and swearing in the name of the holy baby Jesus, but I got er. Well, almost. I got every little punky nut and bolt off from all kinds of crazy angles (and had alot of fun), but once it was loosed i tried to lift it and it does separate from gasket but WILL NOT lift off the two threaded posts coming up from the exhaust pipe.
How do I fix..?