AltFuel CNG conversion

[lc69hunter]

Arizona DEQ, which follows the EPA rules, has the following policy:

If it is an EPA approved conversion, no problem. If not, then there is a vehicle inspection, and then you still have to pass the emissions test annually, and if dual fuel, with both fuels. However, you still get the reduced cost of annual renewal, and access to the commuter lanes. And, cheaper operation.

I plan on doing the conversion myself, and, there a number of companies which sell, and install, the home refueling stations. Your gas utility has nothing to do with it.

 

[Volcano cruiser]

Arizona DEQ, which follows the EPA rules, has the following policy:

If it is an EPA approved conversion, no problem. If not, then there is a vehicle inspection, and then you still have to pass the emissions test annually, and if dual fuel, with both fuels. However, you still get the reduced cost of annual renewal, and access to the commuter lanes. And, cheaper operation.

I plan on doing the conversion myself, and, there a number of companies which sell, and install, the home refueling stations. Your gas utility has nothing to do with it.

Which conversion kit do you plan to install? Also, it makes sense, the fuel pump is just another gas device, any plumber who does gas pipe fittings should be able to handle as they use normal line pressure. Which home fueling station do you plan to use? I found this comparison of some of the CNG home fill units:
http://www.cnginfoguide.com/node/26
John

 

[lc69hunter]

Which conversion kit do you plan to install? Also, it makes sense, the fuel pump is just another gas device, any plumber who does gas pipe fittings should be able to handle as they use normal line pressure. Which home fueling station do you plan to use? I found this comparison of some of the CNG home fill units:
Phill vs. Single Compression Unit | CNG Information Guide
John

Probably Phill.

As for the kit, I am seriously ready to pull the trigger on this one:

.:: CNG WAREHOUSE ::.

 

[Volcano cruiser]

Probably Phill.

As for the kit, I am seriously ready to pull the trigger on this one:

.:: CNG WAREHOUSE ::.

Yeah, I saw this site but as that kit is only for gas engines, I'm out with my diesel. Are you going for the full convert or is your plan to run bi-fuel?

 

[lc69hunter]

I'm going to try and do bi-fuel

 

[Volcano cruiser]

I'm going to try and do bi-fuel

I'm definitely going bi-fuel. At this point I'm trying to identify a diesel conversion kit. I think that the FM2 looks good as a fuel pump. Since most of the installers seem to be in the southwest I'll probably get the conversion done as I drive back up from Central America through Mexico stopping wherever in the southwest to get the conversion done. I will try to time all of this to coincide with any rebates or incentives that are going to be available for converting vehicles and purchasing the home fueling station.

 

[40's rock]

I was at the Ford Dealer and spoke with the service manager, Ford factory produced CNG vehicles till 2004. He said the benefits are incredible...zero engine wear, 5k on oil change and the oil looks brand new, breathable emissions...for those long lines on trail runs....Im going that way, just have to work out the tank placement issues on my 79.....what are the thoughts on tank placement?

 

[Volcano cruiser]

I was at the Ford Dealer and spoke with the service manager, Ford factory produced CNG vehicles till 2004. He said the benefits are incredible...zero engine wear, 5k on oil change and the oil looks brand new, breathable emissions...for those long lines on trail runs....Im going that way, just have to work out the tank placement issues on my 79.....what are the thoughts on tank placement?

I've been thinking about the same issue. On my '80 BJ40 I have two options I think:
1- under the tub, under the drivers seat
2- under the tub, just in front of the rear bumper

While alot depends on the size and number of CNG tanks that would need to be installed to get me a range of approx 150 miles, I am leaning toward having the tanks out back. I want to run an aux fuel tank and i'd like to balance the fuel load on each side of the rig, basically under each seat, under the tub. That just leaves the rear. Of course to do this I will have to make a decision about continuing to run the muffler in the factory position, if at all, as that is where it resides. Running the tank in the cab is just not an option for me. Just don't feel that it is safe in the event of a gas leak to have the tank in the closed cab with passengers. My .02

BTW on a side note I went to a meeting of my 4x4 club last night and one of the new members works for the local LPG(Propane) company. They are going to do installation and service of LPG now here. For my vehicle he says that there would only need to be one tank.

John

 

[joshoisasleep]

I have a good link somewhere about CNG in diesels but I'm not on my computer. As I understand it there's three ways

1. In the air intake - this allows for up to 50% CNG, and is the "least stable"

2. Add a distributor, spark plugs, and CNG carb or whatever it's called. Run 100% CNG with total stability, but now you're truck is not longer diesel... great.

3. Injected - allows for up to 90% CNG and is more stable than in the air intake. I don't know where you could get this installed in North America... I wonder if it's similar to the power boosting propane injection systems that Crushers does. This seems to me the best system, as it allows for duel fuel, you can change the CNG/Diesel ratio, and it's much more "stable" and safe for your engine than in the air intake.


I make no claims of accuracy for the above... this is simply my understanding based on things I've read in the past.

If anyone's thinking about spending money on either a CNG conversion for their diesel cruiser or the roadtrip of a lifetime, you can have your cake and eat it to if you take your cruiser to get converted in Argentina. CNG conversions are REALLY popular in South America, and I got a price quote at one shop for my 4 cylinder 3b that was about $2,000 all-in parts and labour (tank too I think) for option #3. My Spanish is really terrible, but I'm pretty sure that's what he said. Quite the bargain, and since it's so common down here, I'd think they really know what they're doing.

 

[Volcano cruiser]

I have a good link somewhere about CNG in diesels but I'm not on my computer. As I understand it there's three ways

1. In the air intake - this allows for up to 50% CNG, and is the "least stable"

2. Add a distributor, spark plugs, and CNG carb or whatever it's called. Run 100% CNG with total stability, but now you're truck is not longer diesel... great.

3. Injected - allows for up to 90% CNG and is more stable than in the air intake. I don't know where you could get this installed in North America... I wonder if it's similar to the power boosting propane injection systems that Crushers does. This seems to me the best system, as it allows for duel fuel, you can change the CNG/Diesel ratio, and it's much more "stable" and safe for your engine than in the air intake.


I make no claims of accuracy for the above... this is simply my understanding based on things I've read in the past.

If anyone's thinking about spending money on either a CNG conversion for their diesel cruiser or the roadtrip of a lifetime, you can have your cake and eat it to if you take your cruiser to get converted in Argentina. CNG conversions are REALLY popular in South America, and I got a price quote at one shop for my 4 cylinder 3b that was about $2,000 all-in parts and labour (tank too I think) for option #3. My Spanish is really terrible, but I'm pretty sure that's what he said. Quite the bargain, and since it's so common down here, I'd think they really know what they're doing.

Josh,
As to the set-up itself, from what I have read the way that many of the companies who installed this set-up on their fleet rigs have gone is to port the CNG system in at the injectors. It seems that you flip the switch and the fuel solenoid closes off the diesel and lets in the CNG and vice versa. I haven't read about the other systems being used in the U.S.
As you make your way back up I'm very curious if they do the CNG conversion, i.e., bi-fuel switch between diesel and CNG, in Panama, Honduras or even Guatemala? I know from another poster on this or similar thread that they doi the conversion in Colombia. If I could find a good shop to do the conversion I might do it while I'm still in Cent Am instead of waiting to do it on the drive back up. Any way that you cut it I'd love to see the CNG diesel link whenever you run across it again.
Cheers,
John

 

[joshoisasleep]

Damn I can't find that link, surprised I don't have the bookmark... it was a great explanation. The Argentinian shop I got the quote from also offered a full spark plug & distributor conversion.

I think there's people in Ecuador who do the conversions, but for my money I'd just as soon go to Brazil or Argentina... I think the shops in those countries would be much more professional and better set up.

I'll definitely keep my eyes peeled on the way back up!

 

[Volcano cruiser]

Damn I can't find that link, surprised I don't have the bookmark... it was a great explanation. The Argentinian shop I got the quote from also offered a full spark plug & distributor conversion.

I think there's people in Ecuador who do the conversions, but for my money I'd just as soon go to Brazil or Argentina... I think the shops in those countries would be much more professional and better set up.

I'll definitely keep my eyes peeled on the way back up!

Josh,
Re: the professional level of the shops in Argentina and Brazil( and Colombia too) I agree 100%. This especially so in this case as there may be a need to present real paperwork to the DMV or feds regarding emissions or if they ever do decide to give tax rebates or incentives to folks who can prove that they have done alternative fuel, bi-fuel conversions. On the other hand if by the time I'm ready to blow this pop stand and head back north they still haven't gotten it together enough to offer rebates etc then it would still be worth it it to get the job done in this region IF I can find a reputable shop that can do the job. That way all I'll have to do when I get home is save up my nickels for a home fuel pump.
John

 

[Volcano cruiser]

Tank sizes and CNG gas mileage

Guys, It seems that another company has come out with a CNG/diesel conversion kit :
HOME CNG conversion kits cylinders tanks


While this kit won't work for me as you need EFI and neither my present engine nor the two I'm considering for swaps come with EFI. However in looking at the tank sizes they seem small with the largest coming in at 10 - 12.6 GGE for the Type 3 DOT approved tanks unless the gas mileage on CNG is great. Anyone able to lend their mileage experience in running CNG? It obviously makes a difference in what size tank you'll need as they are not cheap. For example according to a couple of these sites the current pice per GGE for CNG is between .79 and .89 so using the 10 gallon tank it will cost me max $8.90 to fill it. Sounds great but how far will I get on a 10 gallon tank of CNG? If I'd get 15 - 20 mpg then that 10 gallon tank of CNG would get me 150 - 200 miles and at $8.90 a tank that would be crazy good but at 5-10 mpg not so much. Any help would be appreciated.
John