Chinese knock-off bumpers

[LINUS]

Hey Linus, please share who the local BC guy for custom stuff for Cruisers. I might be in the market for a front bumper etc.....

Cruisin offroad (Jeff?) is who I had in mind - I got a Hanna rear bumper that materialized (really unforeseen, was fully going to go with Cruisin as he was able to customize to any thickness you wanted any part of the bumper) , but I was going to get one from him as a kit & weld it up like how Luke / 4x4 Labs sold his as an option - he does terrific looking stuff, I was especially impressed with how he fit the endcaps for a Exterra bumper, he had a drivetrain skidplate that looked well designed too.

I think we are maybe seeing a shift of owner demographic - I don't recall threads where the budget was such a factor to so many before (before like 5 years ago), so maybe some of these 80's are starting to see their final owners & the general wear & tear is catching up with a majority of these 80's as the owners who can are moving into later year 100's & for some the 200's if they make that kind of cash.

 

[bhicks]

I think we are maybe seeing a shift of owner demographic - I don't recall threads where the budget was such a factor to so many before (before like 5 years ago), so maybe some of these 80's are starting to see their final owners & the general wear & tear is catching up with a majority of these 80's as the owners who can are moving into later year 100's & for some the 200's if they make that kind of cash.

Your dead on with the "shift of owner demographics". The same thing happens in the Jeep world and since I have built 4 Jeeps over the years I know this very well. Every time a new Jeep model comes out all the guys with money go out and buy the newest and greatest thing. That floods the market with TJ's, LJ's, etc. since everyone is now buying JK's. Suddenly the lower income guy (me) could afford that nice built TJ, but can't afford the high end aftermarket stuff. So in steps Rough Country (made in China) to fill the void. As the models get older and newer models replace them the lower income guys can start affording those older models but the demands for the "cheap" stuff goes way up. This trend will continue until the high end 80 series market will end. This was VERY apparent in the XJ world. The high end companies owned the market but as the clean built 12k+ XJ's turned to beaters then their value went way down and the low end "cheap" stuff had to grow to meet the needs of the new market. In another 5-10 years the 100's series market will also be controlled by the made in China stuff and another 15 years and the 200 series market will be the same. It's just how the offroading market is. In the Jeep world the only high end stuff that is still selling strong is for the JK's. Most guys that spend 50k at the dealer on a loaded 4 door Rubicon don't want to put "cheap" stuff on it. On the other end, the guy that bought the 99 TJ sport at the used car lot for $5500 can't afford the "good" stuff. Different clients and different markets. We are now in the middle of that shift.
In the end, nobody is taking business away from the us market. The poor folks (myself included) can't afford the $1,400 bumpers. So we either have to make them (which I did) or go and buy something cheap. If the US companies want to stay in the market and continue to sell the high end stuff then they need to continue to update their product and sell to the high end market (the guys buying the latest and greatest). If they want to sell the high end stuff indefinitely to the 80 crew then they will go out of business. That's not because they lost business to China; it's because they stopped making products for their high end clients. It's not about what you sell, it's about knowing who your clients are and making products to their desires. There is a place for everyone in the offroad world.

 

[NolaGuy1]

New Lx450 owner from new orleans, always loved these suvs and picked a locked one up about a month ago for a weeekend ride.

That being said, I'll be following to see how these fit. I would be interested.

 

[alltel05]

Linus you have nailed it!

bhicks... You are a master with words.

 

[BullElk]

I could not care less where a product is made as long as it is something of decent quality and something I can afford. That is why I buy used LX and Land Cruisers...they are the best I can get and thankfully made in Japan or they wouldn't be the best I could get. Americans do not make anything as good.

 

[OGBeno]

I think we are maybe seeing a shift of owner demographic - I don't recall threads where the budget was such a factor to so many before (before like 5 years ago), so maybe some of these 80's are starting to see their final owners & the general wear & tear is catching up with a majority of these 80's as the owners who can are moving into later year 100's & for some the 200's if they make that kind of cash.

Look at most 40, 55, 60 and 62 owners. Same thing happened years ago.

 

[starski]

I'd like to get a DC Fabrication front bumper next....ARB bumpers look outdated to me..

 

[Qball]

Price of entry is only around 5k or less now and days. It should be expected that the new owners are more budget oriented. This is fine by me because I saves a lot of money with everyone's experience and ingenuity.

I browsed through 100 and 200 series forums. They are in no way as creative and adventurous as the 80s crowd. Most of their threads are about what they bought, most is 80s threads are about what we did!

I came close to buying a 100 series multiple times but for some reason I really couldn't let go of my LX.


...Misspelled via IH8MUD app

 

[B Point]

Look at most 40, 55, 60 and 62 owners. Same thing happened years ago.

It's interesting to see the folks with "the means" coming around again as all of these models are starting to get climb in price.

 

[Huis Clos]

Don't even fall for this!
1st Alibaba is a haven for scammers. They lure you in with cheap prices and tell you they only do wire transfers and you never receive there products.
2nd the quality control, how does the metal get produced? Did they keep they keep environmental safety in mind? What machines did they use to put this together? Are the welds properly done, penetration etc.

Lastly, don't support companies that just produce for profits with out considering the safety, environment etc. I say American made all the way if you know what's good for you!


...via IH8MUD app

 

[lcwizard]

Some Chinese products you have to buy simply because there are no other choices. But when there's a choice, buy American. Every time you buy a Chinese product over an American Made product you are sending a message to the vendors everywhere that you would rather have cheap product than support business in your own country. Soon they just stop trying to provide American goods. Ten and twenty years from now when you're watching your children struggling to feed your grandkids because all the jobs went overseas you'll look back and say..."should have bought American"

 

[BullElk]

Some Chinese products you have to buy simply because there are no other choices. But when there's a choice, buy American. Every time you buy a Chinese product over an American Made product you are sending a message to the vendors everywhere that you would rather have cheap product than support business in your own country. Soon they just stop trying to provide American goods. Ten and twenty years from now when you're watching your children struggling to feed your grandkids because all the jobs went overseas you'll look back and say..."should have bought American"

What about holding Americans accountable for sub par work ethic and lousy products. Like I said before if Americans made something as well made as a Toyota Land Cruiser or Lexus LX450 like the Japanese do.....then I would think twice about supporting American workers.

Perhaps buying American regardless of quality sends a message that quality doesn't matter to Americans because they'll buy it anyway. What would be sad is if we Americans were not able to own foreign made Land Cruisers.

 

[Qball]

What about holding Americans accountable for sub par work ethic and lousy products. Like I said before if Americans made something as well made as a Toyota Land Cruiser or Lexus LX450 like the Japanese do.....then I would think twice about supporting American workers.

Perhaps buying American regardless of quality sends a message that quality doesn't matter to Americans because they'll buy it anyway. What would be sad is if we Americans were not able to own foreign made Land Cruisers.

Can't put it any better than that!

Free market rules and competition is good for everyone! If no foreign cars are allowed to be sold(no LC)......imagine the crap we will be driving now! Jeeps will be made even worse than they are now, if that is even possible.

 

[LINUS]

I don't really want to get into the whole "buy domestic" facet of this, but we all know the fact is the American stuff costs more initially, but you don't get Harbor Freight quality (1 time use, then luck if works past that) - but when it comes to cars, we need to to look at the fact that the list of cars & the parts for then is a very international business.

BMW builds here, so do: Subaru, Toyota, Honda, to just rattle a few off the top of my head that I know.

Ford, GMC, Chevy - up to 60% of parts can come from non-domestic sources and still carry a "1" as a starting character in the VIN.

That said, yes, all 80 series LC's were 100% Japan - and I worked at a Honda dealership in high school & we would have customers who would wait list themselves to get a Japanese built Accord (they were built both here & in Japan) - reason being the quality was there on the Japan Accords & there was a higher rate of return for warranty work on the American built ones. Sad fact.

Civics (the sedan, hatchback, and CRX) were the same story - but add Canada to the mix. and theirs were the highest rate of return for customer issues/build quality - and the Japanese were the least problematic, with the American ones directly in between.

I personally choose to pay more to get domestic when it's an option for random stuff (and in the end it costs less as you would buy the same Harbor Freight type tool 2-3-4 times), but the world of car manufacture is very international & extremely tough to figure out, even when you do know the decode of build country on a VIN - it doesn't mean the parts were made there.

For example - a lot of American badges have parts that come from Mexico, and they carry a "1" as the VIN starter.
And Volkswagen, a company where you would swear Germany was & is the producer of their badges (Audi, Lambo, and 1 I forget - besides Skoda & another foreign badge) - they build a ton of their USA market cars in Mexico.

Just tossing this out there as really just because you know how to read a vin doesn't mean that starter character means that the country of origin is plain & simple as it seems.

And it pays to research your items of purchase - I need a new brush cutter & found out Stihl is produced (parts) & assembled / made domestic - and I found a "made in China" sticker on the box of Wilton vice I bought.

I hate to say it, but the American way of life is getting "dumbed down" as the economy becomes global & some of the previous 2nd & 3rd world countries enter the market & those people work (and sadly get abused in many cases) as they work hard to earn a better life. We would hold onto our place longer if we quit selling our resources or allowing politicians to pass laws like the "60% foreign parts in a GMC truck"- type things without a clear manifest of origin clearly informed to potential buyers.

To keep this directly on topic, I would be hesitant as you never seem to get anything made from quality steel out of China - it always seems like common pot metal, --in contrast to how many German tools seem to be forged from as good as or even far better steel than American steel.

I have a set of files that are still sharp & they are German from the late 60's.
To contrast, my buddy Johnny ate 2 4.5" grinders in 1 modest trailer build job, so he bought 3 grinders (wife denied $$ for a Dewalt/whatever - "too expensive") - & spent ~$45 & 3 hrs driving to Harbor Freight in Everett. He surely didn't save money.

 

[Qball]

I have a set of files that are still sharp & they are German from the late 60's.
To contrast, my buddy Johnny ate 2 4.5" grinders in 1 modest trailer build job, so he bought 3 grinders (wife denied $$ for a Dewalt/whatever - "too expensive") - & spent ~$45 & 3 hrs driving to Harbor Freight in Everett. He surely didn't save money.

Perfect example or free market and competition working for us, this is also why we are driving land cruisers and not land rover or jeeps.

 

[etarasoff]

Well, since I started this thread, I feel I have a responsibility to weigh in on the "buy American" side tangent going on...

As a consumer, if it makes sense, I generally prefer to "buy local" and support responsible vendors that have a vested interest in their customers and community their customers are a part of. I've done business with the following vendors as part of my slow 80 build and my experience with each has been positive:

* Slee
* Cruiser Outfitters
* Jonesys Offroad
* Cruiser Yard
* Sewell Lexus
* Toyota of Dallas
* Gamviti
* Discount Tire
* Amazon
* Leatherseats.com
* Craft Customs
* Redline Goods

Not only do I plan on doing business with all of these vendors in the future, I also have corresponded with "Extreme Landcruiser" and "Whole Hog Technologies" and plan on supporting these companies at some point in the future, too. In my opinion, each of these businesses provides valuable, unique products and/or services that I need.

At the same time, there are a couple of Mud vendors (I won't name names here) that I will never do business with because of their terrible customer service. I have no problem adding a Chinese company to that vendor list above provided the quality and service is there. That said, and as many have pointed out, often times one or the other is not there.

I will not for a minute compromise quality over price on a critical component like a bumper. Still, I am interested in finding out first-hand what these bumpers look like for the benefit of anyone else looking to save some $. At the end of the day, there's a strong chance that I'll end up with an Arb winch bar on my truck (I have an ARB now, but it's non-winch).

It's already been pointed out, so I won't comment further about the hypocrisy of saying "buy American" on a forum dedicated to Japanese-built SUVs. I've never worked in manufacturing but I do work in high-tech and I've witnessed firsthand the whole outsourcing thing. I've seen poor quality code from some firms in India, but also some really brilliant stuff. Same for some Eastern Europe coders. Just like here, there are good people and bad ones. I've traveled to some of these places as part of my work, and just like here, these folks are just good, hard-working family types trying to do the best for themselves. Nobody has it "in for us" despite what the pundits and some cheesy Hollywood movies might lead you to believe.

One last thing: I would expect there are both "wealthy" and "not wealthy" people on this forum. A few comments:

1) I am certain there are folks on here that go plunk down cash for a new 200, right now, if they really wanted to...but don't.
2) You often don't get to be in category #1 by spending foolishly, like buying a brand new luxury SUV.
3) This is as much hobby as transportation. You can spend your way into doing anything you want, but where's the fun in that?
4) I think there are VERY FEW people on here who would sacrifice quality over price if it came to it, especially for critical items like armor. But all else things being equal, I am going to keep money in my pocket if there is not a significant difference in design, quality or service.

One extra last thing:

I do have some philosophical issue with companies that basically counterfeit/copy products, undercutting their competition that had to bear the cost of R&D. I don't think that's cool.

 

[BullElk]

Good post. I pretty much agree with the above post except the part about not naming names. IMO, that is just enabling a company, American or foreign, to continue staying in business when they don't deserve to be. Which is very similar to your last statement....It's just not cool. They are not too big to fail. Plenty more hard workers trying to make something happen for themselves.

 

[LFD2037]

What was this thread about?




















Oh yeah, bumpers!

 

[lcwizard]

I have no issues with competing with companies from Germany, Japan,Australia and other nations that are paying their people competitive wages and benefits. Cost of doing business is on par with here. Rules of business are similar
I do believe that US, Japanese, European and Australian companies have no chance competing with nations whose governments allow them to compensate their employees with a days wage that is less than an hourly wage here. Small companies in America are forced by law to provide a minimum wage, unemployment insurance, social security matching, and a safe working environment at their expense. I believe it would be fair to attach import duties to the products provided by foreign manufacturers equivalent to the differences in costs that local companies are forced by law to incur. This of course won't happen because the richest men in America today make their fortunes off imported products and they have the strongest lobbies.
Say you owned a coffee shop in your town and followed the rules prescribed by law. Paid the wages and the benefits required by law. Paid the permit fees and spent the money required by law to meet safety codes and standards. What would you do if some politician allowed a new guy to open up a coffee shop across the street but none of those rules applied to him so his cost of doing business was a third of yours. He can go about selling coffee for a third the price and pocket twice the bottom line. Then to top it off his customers can sue or ask for compensation when they're not satisfied.
My trucks are Japanese and American, my tools are generally American or European. My lockers are Australian. My TV is Korean As a rule I'll shop these first. I do have Chinese, Malaysian , and Thai products simply because there are no other manufacturers of certain parts. As a rule only as a last resort.
Everyone has to find there own lines to draw. I know there are many people in this country who just can't afford anything but the cheapest product.
Many good people are surviving on minimum wage or just beyond. I would never fault them to provide for their family even if everything they bought was imported. But if had we not , as a nation, gone the route of cheap imports and outsourcing, decades ago, would the middle class jobs and the better wages still be around and the minimum wage jobs be just starting positions for high school kids like they once were

 

[BullElk]

"Small companies in America are forced by law to provide a minimum wage, unemployment insurance, social security matching, and a safe working environment at their expense."..

...you forgot one, the most important one that the government requires.......that is...the highest corporate tax on the planet. A significant decrease in that would answer your last question. And no, no grown adult should expect to provide for a family with an entry level minimum wage job in the same way higher up jobs are doing.