Brake upgrade development

[bjowett]

Since the issue with the brakes on the 200 continues to resurface, I'll start this thread to discuss what can be done about it. We'll touch on the improvements and talk about a kit that I have in development. I previously had vendor status, and I have already spoken to Woody about reinstating it, so my star will be up shortly. Also, before getting too far ahead here, I'll be testing this and have some data to offer up. More to come....

 

[snobdds]

Yes...something needs to be done about the breaks.

I have heard the TRD break pads, coupled with some Brembo rotors help...but they don't address the root problem of the calipers being too small.

I think the consensus is the wheels are too small to allow for larger calipers.

I know on my wife's ML550, the wheel is only 18 inchs...however the calipers are huge and seem to be "lowprofile" in some way.

 

[BulletHead]

Would 3UR Tundra calipers bolt-on replacement for URJ200 help alleviate the issue and prolong pad life?

 

[bjowett]

The Tundra calipers and rotors are part of a somewhat cost effective solution. We'll also need some other parts from the Tundra, along with better airflow to the rotors.

 

[snobdds]

I have also been eyeing this kit to just fix the problem once and for all...

http://www.autoanything.com/brakes/...ferralID=1d2aa597-456c-11e2-8751-001b2166c2c0

However, there is a catch. A person would need to set up to a 19 inch wheel.

So yea, I am interested in what you come up with.

 

[xkennx]

A brand you might not know aswell as Bembro is Stoptech. I have been working with Jeremy Barrs from Stoptech for a big brake upgrade for my armored TLC's that will work with the OEM 17 and 18 inch wheel. My requirement was to make the armored (4200kg) TLC 200 series stop in the same or better distance as the OEM TLC 200.

They now have a complete solution in the $3000-$3250 price range. It includes all new calipers that are casted and is 6 piston in the front and 4 piston in the rear. You will have to remove a large section of your dust cover.

But I can tell you they work the same if not better then the $6000 ALCON 380 kits I usually install that doesn't work with the smaller 17inch wheel.

If you want photos and more info feel free to email me and I can show you from my personal experience. kenn.walker(at)armored-cars.com

One thing you can test and see for yourself is the OEM brakes are effected by heat.

Find a road now one is on
Mark a point on the road with marker, go back enough to get up to 80kmph and once you get to the marker slam on your brakes. Measure the distance. Do this test at least 6 times you will see the distance increase each time and usually by the 5th or 6th test the brakes fail completely to stop the TLC until the cool down.

 

[bjowett]

Kenn, thanks for the info. Jeremy actually posted on here last year looking for a Land Cruiser for R&D. I am aware of the 380 mm kit that came out of that effort, but it doesn't appear to fit under 18" wheels... at least the clearance template they offer for download shows it not to. Do they have another kit? or?

 

[bjowett]

To start, I'll address what I suspect to be part of the issue, and that is the lack of cooling air flow into the center of the front rotors. In the quest for increased gas mileage, Toyota has not only tucked the wheels decently up into the wells, but also added 4 small lip fairings just ahead of the front tires and supension. They direct air in a way that will help it flow around the suspension and tires w/o getting caught up and increasing drag. Toyota has to meet CAFE standards, and this is one way to do that... it would not be there if it didn't work. Previously posted info about the fairings has been removed... update - There are some small guides between these fairings that appear to guide air toward the rotors. Ducts on the backing plates will help catch this air and force it into the rotor vanes.


Please feel free to add to this in any constructive way.

 

[bjowett]

Land Cruiser vs Tundra. Note not only the diameter increase, but weight difference.

 

[vxlc80]

will changing to drilled and slotted rotors help brake fade or temperature inc?

 

[bjowett]

No, slots and cross drilling are not the direction to take to improve the heat capacity of the system. Slots have their place, but IMO/E, plain rotors will give the best life and all around performance for our street and offroad driven Land Cruisers.

 

[vxlc80]

not to doubt you but will cross drilled rotors dissipate heat faster?

 

[bjowett]

When holes and slots are added, that reduces the pads contact with the rotor. So now there is less pad contacting rotor, and thus doing less of the job it is intended to do. That being to create friction-> heat and transfer that heat energy into rotor to be dissapated. When holes and slots are added, we are removing mass/material from the rotor, there is now less material to absorb and dissapate the energy.

 

[dtt255]

subscribed....I don't know jack about the tech stuff....but when it's time... I want some!!!

 

[vxlc80]

To start, I'll address what I suspect to be part of the issue, and that is the lack of cooling air flow into the center of the front rotors. In the quest for increased gas mileage, Toyota has not only tucked the wheels decently up into the wells, but also added 4 small lip fairings just ahead of the front tires and supension. They direct air in a way that will help it flow around the suspension and tires w/o getting caught up and increasing drag. Toyota has to meet CAFE standards, and this is one way to do that... it would not be there if it didn't work. Unfortunately, this does not guide any of the air into the small slot vents in the backing plates that feed air into the rotor centers. The vanes in the rotors are on their own to pump the vital cooling air. So the first part of this project will be to add cooling ducts or scoops of some sort to catch and force air to the rotors. I'll come up with some designs and post them up.

Please feel free to add to this in any constructive way.

Hows your design for the scoop?

 

[alwaysme]

I am extremely interested in a setup. Please contact me once there is a professional solution available for 35x12,50R17 without wheel/tire upgrades.

thanks

 

[sptsdn]

I have a question about stainless steel brake lines. I don't think they actually improve the performance but suspect they might help with the "spongy-ness" of the peddle. So, are they worth it? Big improvement in feel?

 

[BulletHead]

I have a question about stainless steel brake lines. I don't think they actually improve the performance but suspect they might help with the "spongy-ness" of the peddle. So, are they worth it? Big improvement in feel?

Spongy feel is actually the brake line expanding. Since the SS lines will help eliminate this unwanted behavior, it does in fact improve performance in the sense the caliper experiences the load that is actually applied, not discounted by poor expanding rubber brake lines.

 

[Surfy]

On the europe spec J20 you only can mount 17" or bigger - because of the size of the brake system.

I guess you have a smaller one, because you think about upgrading?

Surfy

 

[bjowett]

Scoops could be placed on the leading edge of the lower control arm, or built into the backing plate. I'll dig up pictures of some examples.

I'm no longer a fan of stainless lines. While they do offer lower expansion and a very nice look, they offer very little, if any, real world daily driver performance gain. They can have longevity issues, even the better designed DOT lines.

As far as l know, all 200 Series use the 340 mm rotors. The 354 mm units will fit under some 17" wheels.