How many people own property up there?
Bland open house
- Thread starter jemezcrusher
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Several
Not sure about Bland Canyon. I know of the Blount family, but do not know if anyone else is involved.
There are several private properties up Cochiti Canyon, though. All those folks were involved with the Bland deal yesterday.
Not sure about Bland Canyon. I know of the Blount family, but do not know if anyone else is involved.
There are several private properties up Cochiti Canyon, though. All those folks were involved with the Bland deal yesterday.
I think at that time Helen was the default Matriarch of the town and was pushing to get public dollars to help maintain things and was a little more open to flatlanders coming around. Unfortunately the experience of being turned away at the gate for you folks yesterday is pretty consistent with the way it "used to be". The property owners seem pretty paranoid. On two occassions years ago I was chased away from the fence by a guy wearing a sidearm - one time when on a bike and I stopped to take a drink and another time when driving and just stopped to see what I could see past the gate. Both times I got a threatening lecture about private property rights and trespassing, even though I never left the USFS road.
1911
chupacabra
I'm all for private property rights, but harassing people on a forest service or other public road would piss me off.
My land there in NM is very close to a fair parcel of BLM land in the San Pedro Mountains. Unfortunately, my immediate neighbor has leased it from the gub'ment for so long that he believes it is his, and has it fenced off. I sweet-talked my way into wheeling on it one time, but it gripes me to have to do that for public land.
My land there in NM is very close to a fair parcel of BLM land in the San Pedro Mountains. Unfortunately, my immediate neighbor has leased it from the gub'ment for so long that he believes it is his, and has it fenced off. I sweet-talked my way into wheeling on it one time, but it gripes me to have to do that for public land.
DanS HJ-45
SILVER Star
Agreed. As someone who is likely going to file for vacation of a couple public trails (through property I intend to purchase) it ticks me off if they don't want to do it the right way. If your neighbor wants to close it, he's welcome to. There is a legal process whereby it can be done (it of course can be contested, as well).
If you aren't willing to close it for real, then you shouldn't be "closing" it. I'd bet you can file a complaint with the BLM over something like this...
Dan
1911
chupacabra
I thought about it, but I decided I'd rather be on good terms with my neighbor, who is an 80ish-year-old widower and Spanish Land Grant descendant. I'm a little worried about what his inheritors might do with it in the future. The wheeling there is not super challenging anyway, it's just kind of cool to be able to go wheeling almost literally from my back door.
Pics from the 4WD trails on the BLM land:
Bland Surveys
Yes, the single-track AND FS roads are under closure consideration by the FS, per the SFNF DEIS - which you should be reading and commenting on!!! 45 days to do so, from the Notice of Availability posting.
If you don't comment, you can't appeal the final decision.
Cochiti Mining District references attached;
i) GPS track
ii) Monte Cristo Lode survey
iii) MC macro of Bland gate and FS road intersection
Basically, yes, 'friends' were allowed into Bland this past Sunday. Public visitation of Bland was secured from Alley, personally, before advertising the 'open house', to the OHV community. She was supposed to let anyone in. The guy with the pistol (and sore attitude) is Mike, her caretaker. Some have trepassed and taken things not theirs, which has upset Alley understandably. And then, the private property circumference around Bland et al, is not properly posted, so it's not officially enforceable.
The Monte Cristo Lode is not wholly owned by Nancy Woods. And, Hank Farrah I believe is an NM resident (have not contacted him).
Bland folk have been a little too isolated, mentally, therefore the reclusive personality.
The cemetery has been trespassed upon, though, not to the delight of Alley. If you visit there, please respect the cemetery and graves by not walking on. Enjoy at a distance.
Yes, the single-track AND FS roads are under closure consideration by the FS, per the SFNF DEIS - which you should be reading and commenting on!!! 45 days to do so, from the Notice of Availability posting.
If you don't comment, you can't appeal the final decision.
Cochiti Mining District references attached;
i) GPS track
ii) Monte Cristo Lode survey
iii) MC macro of Bland gate and FS road intersection
Basically, yes, 'friends' were allowed into Bland this past Sunday. Public visitation of Bland was secured from Alley, personally, before advertising the 'open house', to the OHV community. She was supposed to let anyone in. The guy with the pistol (and sore attitude) is Mike, her caretaker. Some have trepassed and taken things not theirs, which has upset Alley understandably. And then, the private property circumference around Bland et al, is not properly posted, so it's not officially enforceable.
The Monte Cristo Lode is not wholly owned by Nancy Woods. And, Hank Farrah I believe is an NM resident (have not contacted him).
Bland folk have been a little too isolated, mentally, therefore the reclusive personality.
The cemetery has been trespassed upon, though, not to the delight of Alley. If you visit there, please respect the cemetery and graves by not walking on. Enjoy at a distance.
I just ran into this discussion by Googling "Bland Gates." I was part of that Jeep club that rolled by. It was a little strange. There were a few other visitors being turned away at the gates. We did visit the cemetary and then went on our way. I didn't know pictures weren't allowed.
I saw a beautiful campground right next to those gates that I saved on my GPS. I was planning on camping out there this weekend until I read this. We tread lightly, but I don't want to be harassed by any armed folks.
I saw a beautiful campground right next to those gates that I saved on my GPS. I was planning on camping out there this weekend until I read this. We tread lightly, but I don't want to be harassed by any armed folks.
Unfortunately, reading and commenting on a proposed decision has small affect, IMHO, much like voting. And lawbreakers will still sneak around gates, tear stuff up, throw beer bottles into their illegal campfires, and leave toilet paper next to an outhouse...
If I owned a ghost town I'd prolly wear a sidearm as well; heck, sumbody shot my doberboy w/snakeshot from the road while I was at work, should prolly be carrying at home!
That said, once lived NE of White Oaks: ghost towns are cool as s***, moreso when you know the history before you go. Still trying to learn about where I live: been told a rock house S of 'the village of El Cedro' usta be a layover w/ holding cells for criminals headed to Santa Fe for judgement.
Sad to hear the Bland owners have had such bad interactions w/the public. Perhaps Trails Day type maintance by the club could restore some goodwill? Could start by posting the private property signs, as proof the TLC folks understand property boundries, and for idjits to ignore.
If I owned a ghost town I'd prolly wear a sidearm as well; heck, sumbody shot my doberboy w/snakeshot from the road while I was at work, should prolly be carrying at home!
That said, once lived NE of White Oaks: ghost towns are cool as s***, moreso when you know the history before you go. Still trying to learn about where I live: been told a rock house S of 'the village of El Cedro' usta be a layover w/ holding cells for criminals headed to Santa Fe for judgement.
Sad to hear the Bland owners have had such bad interactions w/the public. Perhaps Trails Day type maintance by the club could restore some goodwill? Could start by posting the private property signs, as proof the TLC folks understand property boundries, and for idjits to ignore.
We went through the "goodwill" thing with Bland 7 or 8 years ago when the previous "open house" was held. Unfortunately there seems to be a division between some of the property owners as to whether the place should be open, at times, to the public. Being threatened with a handgun while standing on a FS road probably creates an "attractive nuisance" that makes some people want to get in and perhaps do damage merely because of the bad blood. The bottom line is that if you own an historic property surrounded by public land you're going to have interested interlopers, whose interest may be increased by a cranky armed caretaker. There are better ways to establish "goodwill" with the public. Helen seemed to have the right idea but she passed on before that vision was realized, to the public's detriment. I'm just glad I got to see the place in a peaceful scenario.
thanks for the background.
Camping
Sanrico,
That is a sweet camping spot right by the gates at Bland. I'd camp there if I wanted to, and I wouldn't worry about Michael Blount harassing you with his gun.
There are also a lot of other killer camping spots in that area. Heading up to the right from the gates, up "Old Bland Road", will take you to a lot of great, out-of-the-way, spots, and some with flowing water. If you keep driving that road you'll end up on Hwy 4.
CruiserGreg - Did Michael actually draw his gun on you? I personally wouldn't take someone carrying an exposed weapon as a threat because I'd probably be carrying one myself! Especially up in the mountains . . .
Ditto on your words, sirenmoses. If I owned an old ghost town I'd be keeping idiots, er, people, out too. Too many ghost towns have been lost to trinket-takers, trippin' hippies burning down buildings for fun, and the like.
Sanrico,
That is a sweet camping spot right by the gates at Bland. I'd camp there if I wanted to, and I wouldn't worry about Michael Blount harassing you with his gun.
There are also a lot of other killer camping spots in that area. Heading up to the right from the gates, up "Old Bland Road", will take you to a lot of great, out-of-the-way, spots, and some with flowing water. If you keep driving that road you'll end up on Hwy 4.
CruiserGreg - Did Michael actually draw his gun on you? I personally wouldn't take someone carrying an exposed weapon as a threat because I'd probably be carrying one myself!
Especially up in the mountains . . .Ditto on your words, sirenmoses. If I owned an old ghost town I'd be keeping idiots, er, people, out too. Too many ghost towns have been lost to trinket-takers, trippin' hippies burning down buildings for fun, and the like.
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CruiserGreg - Did Michael actually draw his gun on you? I personally wouldn't take someone carrying an exposed weapon as a threat because I'd probably be carrying one myself!
The gun was never drawn either time but there was a comment to the effect of "needing to stay off private property because you could get shot". There was also a suggestion that the road veering to the right at the gate was also private, which it is not. There is (or at least was) a sign on the Bland gate that said Turn Around or Go Back or something like that. It just seems the folks with property in that area don't want the public around, even on the public lands.
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Well, we did the camping trip and guess who we ran into? Yep.
I wanted my friends to see the Bland Cemetary, so we made a stop there. The signs clearly say that foot traffic is welcome, but motor vehicles are prohibited at the cemetary. So we parked our vehicles on the trail outside and walked in. There was a Jeep Cherokee parked in there there with a large tarp over it, blocking the foot trail. There was a sign on the Cherokee that said something about unattended children being sold as slaves. Thought the owner might have a sense of humor...wrong.
The man (don't know if it was Michael Blount or not. Longish white hair, beard and scowling) was clearly irritated that we were there. He stopped what he was doing and just stared at us. Uncomfortable, we said hello to him, to which he responded, "don't step on the blue flags." I understand those blue flags are graves, which we wouldn't want to step on, but the feeling was more of "get the bleep out of here."
Feeling very unwelcomed and uncomfortable, we did an about-face and left. Saw the Bland Gates with the big "Turn Around Here" sign on them as we left and headed up the trail.
Then we ran into him (almost literally) again on the way out of the area the next day after camping. Heading down Forest Road 376, he was tearing up the road in the same Cherokee, traveling much faster than anyone should on that road. We had to do an emergency pull over to let him race past.
Needless to say, it didn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.
I wanted my friends to see the Bland Cemetary, so we made a stop there. The signs clearly say that foot traffic is welcome, but motor vehicles are prohibited at the cemetary. So we parked our vehicles on the trail outside and walked in. There was a Jeep Cherokee parked in there there with a large tarp over it, blocking the foot trail. There was a sign on the Cherokee that said something about unattended children being sold as slaves. Thought the owner might have a sense of humor...wrong.
The man (don't know if it was Michael Blount or not. Longish white hair, beard and scowling) was clearly irritated that we were there. He stopped what he was doing and just stared at us. Uncomfortable, we said hello to him, to which he responded, "don't step on the blue flags." I understand those blue flags are graves, which we wouldn't want to step on, but the feeling was more of "get the bleep out of here."
Feeling very unwelcomed and uncomfortable, we did an about-face and left. Saw the Bland Gates with the big "Turn Around Here" sign on them as we left and headed up the trail.
Then we ran into him (almost literally) again on the way out of the area the next day after camping. Heading down Forest Road 376, he was tearing up the road in the same Cherokee, traveling much faster than anyone should on that road. We had to do an emergency pull over to let him race past.
Needless to say, it didn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.
You have more cajones than me to camp in the area. It's not just the Bland contingent (at least I don't think so) - I've been up the road well above Bland where (presumably) the local landowners had cut down several series of large trees to block the road to through access. In that area I'd be afraid to leave a campsite unattended to take a hike or whatever for fear of having it in different condition than when it was left.
There are so many other beautiful, pristine areas in the Jemez where you'll never be hassled that I generally leave the Bland Canyon area alone.
I figured there might be lead in the water up there and that was what was causing their ... errant ... behavior. I looked a little and found this, which looks like some interesting reading on mining in general in NM:
http://nmgs.nmt.edu/publications/guidebooks/downloads/12/12_p0155_p0167.pdf
http://nmgs.nmt.edu/publications/guidebooks/downloads/12/12_p0155_p0167.pdf