Binding much? Clenching much? (1 Viewer)

[audioviking]

The trailer's PO said it came from Tractor Supply. An empty M1101 towed Austin to Dallas on Sunday.A little bouncy but OK. An hour from home, it was about a 1/3 of this. This pic is when I got home.

Need a recommendation for a good high-rise pintle. OME lift is a year or so away. Looking at air suspension bags to help level the LC as a short-term measure. Still need 12" or so of difference to make up.

For sale: One Pintle hitch, slightly used.

 

[80t0ylc]

The trailer's PO said it came from Tractor Supply. An empty M1101 towed Austin to Dallas on Sunday.A little bouncy but OK. An hour from home, it was about a 1/3 of this. This pic is when I got home.

Need a recommendation for a good high-rise pintle. OME lift is a year or so away. Looking at air suspension bags to help level the LC as a short-term measure. Still need 12" or so of difference to make up.

For sale: One Pintle hitch, slightly used.


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So when you started your trip to Dallas, the pintle was straight & true and this is the result of one tow trip? Was the trip entirely on paved roads? When you say "bouncy", you're talking up & down bounce or what an empty trailer does normally? Not the kind of sway that can happen from too little tongue weight? Also, can you post pics of the trailer, especially the tongue?

 

[audioviking]

One trip. a few turns through a parking lot and then on the highway. I had to lower the tire pressure to 17 after just a bit. It was at 35...every pebble caused it to bounce. ( I just checked pressure today. ARB pressure meter says 18.4psi)
Bouncy = Up and down.
Was much better after pressure lowered but at highway speeds it would bing and clank on occasion.
Occasional front /back shudder around 50mph. speeding up a bit usually stopped it.
It always pulled straight. There is the nose-down issue that the new hitch will fix.
Not sure what combination caused the pintle plate to bend. Could the pintle be too small ? The PO said he got eveything from Tractor Supply.

 

[audioviking]

In backing it in, the bend on the hitch would have been the angle my truck was to the trailer position in the pic.

 

[80t0ylc]

I don't know....after studying the pics, the gauge of steel used to raise the pintle height is entirely inadequate, IMHO. In an extremely tight left hand turn, the trailer should contact the bumper before reaching a limit with the pintle and tongue ring. So normal forward or backup stress has to have caused the deformation, since you have no bumper or trailer damage. I guess that I've come to the conclusion that including the gusset, that pintle even looks fragile - but that's just one guy's opinion. But the performance speaks for itself. I wouldn't continue to use it.

 

[e9999]

weird.
Looks like the shoulder on the lunette is such that the trailer would have to be well over 90 deg to the truck for there to be contact, so that's unlikely to be the cause. Although it sure looks like something did bind in a turn. You didn't have the safety chains tangled up with the lunette or pintle, I assume?
Hard to believe that an empty trailer would have pulled that hard on the pintle without binding in a turn that it would have simply twisted the pintle mount sideways unless the steel is inordinately soft.
I got a pintle mount from HF some years back. Looks just fine and I pulled some seriously heavy stuff with it. The shaft is solid steel, believe it or not. The mounting plate is 7/16" thick. Don't remember the rating. IIRC it was made in India.

 

[audioviking]

The hitch is off and in the trash. Calling Bulletproof later to get recommendations.

 

[Exiled]

I don't have experience with these larger military trailers, but is there a way to lower the axle on the trailer itself? I'm wondering if the force of the weight of the trailer on the elevated hitch mount is what caused the issue, that's a lot of torque/leverage on the adapter itself being so high off the hitch itself. So rather than lift your truck, lower the trailer? Also, any chance that the surge breaks on the trailer need adjustment? If they're binding, that might be contributing to the torque on the adapter.

 

[audioviking]

@Exiled - those are 37" tires. So yes I can go with smaller. Not sure that lowering the trailer vs a stronger/better hitch will do. I've not heard of anyone having this issue, which leads me to think it is the pintle and receiver mount itself. It looks to me that the pintle does not have enough room to allow the ring to swivel vs just binding.

@e9999 the turning issue was what I was thinking, these should certainly be able to take a pretty tight turn. And I didn't come close to hitting the bumper. Safety chains were hanging low ( a bit too low for me, but I was on the highway. I didn't have a zip tie)

Going to see if I can get a Curt or Bulletproof later.

 

[80t0ylc]

weird.
Looks like the shoulder on the lunette is such that the trailer would have to be well over 90 deg to the truck for there to be contact, so that's unlikely to be the cause. Although it sure looks like something did bind in a turn. You didn't have the safety chains tangled up with the lunette or pintle, I assume?
Hard to believe that an empty trailer would have pulled that hard on the pintle without binding in a turn that it would have simply twisted the pintle mount sideways unless the steel is inordinately soft.
I got a pintle mount from HF some years back. Looks just fine and I pulled some seriously heavy stuff with it. The shaft is solid steel, believe it or not. The mounting plate is 7/16" thick. Don't remember the rating. IIRC it was made in India.

I don't believe there was any binding or clenching beyond normal.

The trailer's PO said it came from Tractor Supply. An empty M1101 towed Austin to Dallas on Sunday.A little bouncy but OK. An hour from home, it was about a 1/3 of this. This pic is when I got home.
Need a recommendation for a good high-rise pintle. OME lift is a year or so away. Looking at air suspension bags to help level the LC as a short-term measure. Still need 12" or so of difference to make up............

The normal stresses were too much for this pintle. I went to the Tractor Supply website to verify the PO's claim and there are 2 pintle choices that look similar to what is pictured in this post. The heavier duty one is actually $33 cheaper and it looks like the one used here. The two pintles I looked at:

$56.99

$89.99

I think that the leverage forces are just too much for the height difference in your case. After seeing your results, I think that these pintles are over rated for what they show they are capable. But to get back to your case, the height difference, as you've already mentioned, is your biggest challenge - and not an easy thing to overcome considering what you're attempting to do. The evidence of the forces shown by the deformation in that pintle is compelling and this is on pavement. You're lucky to have avoided finding this out on an extended trip. Please update this thread when you find a solution!

Edit: It may be that the above pintles are rated for using the minimum lift position and it's a shame they don't rate them for all positions!

 

[audioviking]

Thanks for all the input! A Curt pintle and 12"-rise plate will be here tomorrow so I can at least move it around to the fabricators and a few local trips.
Knowing what I now know, I can keep an eye on it until I can get the lunette ring lowered ( should give me 5-6 inches less difference) and a lift kit planned ( 2.5" OME).

Currently there is a 15" delta. Planned OME lift takes it to 12.5". Lunette drop is 6". so that is 6.5" delta. That puts a moderate-rise plate at 6" or so.

Long-term setup looks to be Bulletproof brand unless I find another, better option.

Thanks again!

 

[e9999]

I doubt that the height issue has to do directly with that damage unless there was some bizarre binding going on that was indirectly linked to that. The damage seems to be entirely a twist around the vertical axis. So a turn issue IMO. Of course, having the pintle up top gave the mounting plate more freedom to twist around the buttress.
Is it possible that the hydraulic brakes are not working properly and you did brake suddenly the truck while in a turn which had the trailer then slam into the pintle at an angle?
How thick is that mounting plate?
I would contact the manufacturer, you might get a free replacement (and save somebody else the aggravation). And keep the old one, you can likely make something useful out of the remnants, one never has too many 2" implements...

 

[audioviking]

PO bought the hitch...not sure i can get records. The brakes are getting looked at soon as I find a DFW shop.

 

[NMC_EXP]

Does not explain the hitch adapter being bent but with even a genuine USGI lunette and pintle there is a bit of radial clearance so the will be some noise from the hitch. This on accel, decel and bumps.

 

[ntsqd]

The issue is with the pintle adapter, not the pintle itself. Poor design at fault there, not enough Section there to resist the torsion. Something put enough leverage on the pintle to bend that plate like that. Hard to do that when going forward, but much easier when backing up. I don't think that the direction of the bend tells us anything about the event that bent it. Locked-up in one orientation and it will bend in the direction of the turn. Locked-up in another orientation and it will bend away from the direction of the turn.

That pintle itself might be junk too is not easy to tell from the pictures of it.

 

[audioviking]

Just got a Curt pintle and hi-rise plate. Will take it for a short trip tomorrow to see what it does.

 

[80t0ylc]

Just got a Curt pintle and hi-rise plate. Will take it for a short trip tomorrow to see what it does.

Pics please

 

[audioviking]

After a short trip, unloaded at 17psi,u no problems. About to go fetch a yard of dirt. Local trip, no highway. I'm still going to keep an eye on the hitch.

 

[audioviking]

After 5 trips with a yard of sand/compost on each return trip , a few observations:
-a cubic yard of sand / compost is too heavy.
-The tongue down attitude induces a ftont/back motion as the trailer bounces over stuff. There is some % of the vertical bounce motion tranferred fore and aft due to the heighth difference.
-There is an oscillation on some streets with the rig under load. Tire pressure on trailer is at 17psi. It tends to be worse when loaded, most likely the inertia of the load. Changing speed usually changes that rthym
-I will have my ARB compressor on-board next week and can air up the trailer a bit to see how that affects things.

So far, the new hitch is solid. No flex or cracked paint from stress. No bending.

4-5 more yards of dirt to go! Then sod. THEN, the mods for a camping rig!

 

[e9999]

I've always thought it interesting that so many people (including me) seem to have a hard time picturing how heavy sand or water is. As in you see a 1 cubic yard pile of sand on the ground, you think no big deal. Easy to move around with a shovel, right? So, can't be very heavy. Then picture a stone 1 yard on the side, it is enormous, most folks think tons and tons, impossible to move, so must be really heavy.... well.... Funny how things are.