Battery not holding charge

[pvchaitanya]

Starting this winter I am noticing that my 2020 duralast gold battery is struggling to start the truck when started after 3-4 days. But once I drive the truck and restart in between, it starts immediately.

I took it to autozone today and the associate tells that the battery is good according to their testing but is low on charge (Even after I drive my truck for 30 mins to their store).
He seems to suggest that I get my alternator checked (he tried to test and his equipment said that battery needs to be charged for its tests to run).

I see the voltage guage is staying close to 13.9 or 14 volts when I start my car after a while. and this has been happening for a month or so.

Do you think the alternator is getting weaker? I thought either the alternator works, or doesn't work. Not like its working weak and unable to charge my battery sufficiently. Since this battery is like this for a month. (if alternator is unable to charge sufficiently, it would have depleted the battery already by now).

I am inclined to replace the battery with a new one, any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[tbisaacs]

I chased this for a while and it was an intermittent diode failure on alternator. Just replace it and be done IMO.

 

[pvchaitanya]

v

 

[mobi-arc]

Voltage can test fine...what about the current? You've only tested for part of the equation.

 

[TeCKis300]

Starting this winter I am noticing that my 2020 duralast gold battery is struggling to start the truck when started after 3-4 days. But once I drive the truck and restart in between, it starts immediately.

I took it to autozone today and the associate tells that the battery is good according to their testing but is low on charge (Even after I drive my truck for 30 mins to their store).
He seems to suggest that I get my alternator checked (he tried to test and his equipment said that battery needs to be charged for its tests to run).

I see the voltage guage is staying close to 13.9 or 14 volts when I start my car after a while. and this has been happening for a month or so.

Do you think the alternator is getting weaker? I thought either the alternator works, or doesn't work. Not like its working weak and unable to charge my battery sufficiently. Since this battery is like this for a month. (if alternator is unable to charge sufficiently, it would have depleted the battery already by now).

I am inclined to replace the battery with a new one, any thoughts or suggestions?

I'm assuming your electrical system is not modified in any way? Added accessories? Other than the Duralast Gold which is a standard flooded lead acid (FLA)?

I would change the battery first as low hanging fruit before chasing anything else. Sounds like the battery is weak and no longer able to hold sufficient reserve. Exacerbated by cold weather as batteries are fundamentally a chemical reaction that is slowed down with lower temp.

Is it possible you had an occasion of really drawing down the battery in its lifetime, maybe even drawn dead? During COVID, lots of cars sat for extended periods. FLA batts really dislike both deep draws and sits, as they begin sulfating which is an irreparable march towards premature wear and failure.

 

[RET2]

As batteries age the inherent parasitic draw of our vehicles has a greater effect.

 

[pvchaitanya]

I'm assuming your electrical system is not modified in any way? Added accessories? Other than the Duralast Gold which is a standard flooded lead acid (FLA)?

I would change the battery first as low hanging fruit before chasing anything else. Sounds like the battery is weak and no longer able to hold sufficient reserve. Exacerbated by cold weather as batteries are fundamentally a chemical reaction that is slowed down with lower temp.

Is it possible you had an occasion of really drawing down the battery in its lifetime, maybe even drawn dead? During COVID, lots of cars sat for extended periods. FLA batts really dislike both deep draws and sits, as they begin sulfating which is an irreparable march towards premature wear and failure.

except for updating all my lights to led lights (interior and exterior) and adding grom vline2 (Which stays active for 10 mins after shutdown) nothing else added.

Even I tend to lean towards battery slowing giving out.
I have a multi meter, is there a way to measure how alternator is producing amps? (Any baseline reading I should look for?)

I see different size batteries compatible, is there a deep cycle marine battery I can look at which fits into the bay without modifications?

 

[PDoyle]

Unfortunately a marine deep cycle is not the answer. Unless you keep a maintainer or use a battery charger to fully charge the battery.

 

[FGreggo]

Unfortunately a marine deep cycle is not the answer. Unless you keep a maintainer or use a battery charger to fully charge the battery.

would an AGM be a way to go? I'm looking at replacing a battery after several cold start issues and have been looking this direction.

 

[PDoyle]

if your battery is more than 4 years old it’s probably time for a new one. I had a marine battery at one point as well an AGM. I think a bettery with a brand name and a good warranty would work just as well.

 

[kwelhand]

I had same issue.
2021 Duralast Gold worked fine until this year when temp dropped.
I had to manually charge the battery pretty much everyday.
Took it to a Autozone and of course the battery is fine.
Replaced with a Samsclub battery and no problem ever since.

 

[kcjaz]

would an AGM be a way to go? I'm looking at replacing a battery after several cold start issues and have been looking this direction.

I will install an AGM when my FLA finally dies. Many here have done so. I already have the AGM and I bought it because I thought it would be better with the winch and other accessories I was adding. However, my good ole FLA has gone 3 years after I added the winch (which I actually use about every time I go wheeling). It is near its end of life as its 4 years old. For my current use, I don't think an AGM is needed but I'll put it in as I already have it.

If you go AGM, you need to bump up your charging voltage. Its easy to do buy just buying a diode voltage booster. You can even make one your self if you are so inclined. Search HKB on Mudd. If you search in general in this forum, you will mind much debate on the topic of batteries.

HKB Electronics

The Alternator Voltage Booster was the first of its type on the market and is the only unit available that was has been purpose built for alternator voltage boosting.

www.hkbelect.com

 

[TeCKis300]

would an AGM be a way to go? I'm looking at replacing a battery after several cold start issues and have been looking this direction.

Short answer is no. Our cars electrical system is designed for a standard flooded lead acid (FLA). The charging profile is closely tailored for that battery type and using any other chemistry like AGM will see premature damage. AGMs also don't like underhood heat which will also compromise life. You'll get the longest life from a standard FLA battery.

FLAs like to be maintained at full charge. Daily driver use case is best as it regularly tops off the battery. 5-7 years from a battery with this type of use wouldn't be unexpected (unless in extreme heat climates like AZ/TX). Challenge has been with COVID, work from home, 3rd cars that sit... follow a different use case pattern where batteries get drawn down, prematurely wearing and sulfates lead acid batts.

That said, there are higher end batteries. Including larger size batteries which innately has an advantage with larger reserves resulting in less draw down for otherwise equivalent use.

I personally like this Deka group 31 commercial battery that is a great value with AGM like features.

Homebrew Single Group 31 Battery Install

Took a cue from this thread and ordered a high quality Deka 1131PMF battery. It's a flooded lead acid which has the advantage of full compatibility with the stock smart alternator charging profile (and longest life prospects). With often sought features of AGM including: - Spill proof - Heavy...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[FGreggo]

Short answer is no. Our cars electrical system is designed for a standard flooded lead acid (FLA). The charging profile is closely tailored for that battery type and using any other chemistry like AGM will see premature damage. AGMs also don't like underhood heat which will also compromise life. You'll get the longest life from a standard FLA battery.

FLAs like to be maintained at full charge. Daily driver use case is best as it regularly tops off the battery. 5-7 years from a battery with this type of use wouldn't be unexpected (unless in extreme heat climates like AZ/TX). Challenge has been with COVID, work from home, 3rd cars that sit... follow a different use case pattern where batteries get drawn down, prematurely wearing and sulfates lead acid batts.

That said, there are higher end batteries. Including larger size batteries which innately has an advantage with larger reserves resulting in less draw down for otherwise equivalent use.

I personally like this Deka group 31 commercial battery that is a great value with AGM like features.

Homebrew Single Group 31 Battery Install

Took a cue from this thread and ordered a high quality Deka 1131PMF battery. It's a flooded lead acid which has the advantage of full compatibility with the stock smart alternator charging profile (and longest life prospects). With often sought features of AGM including: - Spill proof - Heavy...

forum.ih8mud.com

I appreciate the information. FLA will save me a pretty penny too.

 

[tbisaacs]

I will install an AGM when my FLA finally dies. Many here have done so. I already have the AGM and I bought it because I thought it would be better with the winch and other accessories I was adding. However, my good ole FLA has gone 3 years after I added the winch (which I actually use about every time I go wheeling). It is near its end of life as its 4 years old. For my current use, I don't think an AGM is needed but I'll put it in as I already have it.

If you go AGM, you need to bump up your charging voltage. Its easy to do buy just buying a diode voltage booster. You can even make one your self if you are so inclined. Search HKB on Mudd. If you search in general in this forum, you will mind much debate on the topic of batteries.

HKB Electronics

The Alternator Voltage Booster was the first of its type on the market and is the only unit available that was has been purpose built for alternator voltage boosting.

www.hkbelect.com

I can’t prove it but my first alternator died shortly after running a diode.

 

[kcjaz]

I can’t prove it but my first alternator died shortly after running a diode.

Yeah, I've researched that a bit. It does seem possible to boost the voltage too much and hurt the charging system. Yours is the first I've seen on here with a possible related alternator failure. I believe there are a few (@TheGrrrrr, @CharlieS, @Markuson) that have been running the diode for a while without issues. The question is how to know what is too much boost. I've got another thread going trying to get input/thoughts on how much boost to use.

HKB voltage booster install

My HKB booster arrived from Australia and plugged it in. It works. Voltage is now 13.6-13.8. The 14.4 voltage was after startup. I recommend this. https://www.hkbelect.com/

forum.ih8mud.com

I bought the adjustable HKB so I could adjust it. I just don't know yet where to set it. I'm kinda thinking to adjust it to the lowest setting while meeting the battery's minimum voltage.

 

[Markuson]

Yeah, I've researched that a bit. It does seem possible to boost the voltage too much and hurt the charging system. Yours is the first I've seen on here with a possible related alternator failure. I believe there are a few (@TheGrrrrr, @CharlieS, @Markuson) that have been running the diode for a while without issues. The question is how to know what is too much boost. I've got another thread going trying to get input/thoughts on how much boost to use.

HKB voltage booster install

My HKB booster arrived from Australia and plugged it in. It works. Voltage is now 13.6-13.8. The 14.4 voltage was after startup. I recommend this. https://www.hkbelect.com/

forum.ih8mud.com

I bought the adjustable HKB so I could adjust it. I just don't know yet where to set it. I'm kinda thinking to adjust it to the lowest setting while meeting the battery's minimum voltage.

My significant diode experience disagrees with the theory that it somehow damages the alternator. It hasn’t in my case, and…
…I’ve run both versions (adjustable and non-adjustable) of the HKB for years now …and I’m still on my *original alternator* that was built into my 15 year old 200 series in 2007 (built in late 2007 as a 2008 model).

I run massive power via my two AGMs 24/7/365….trickle charge when parked at home…and HKB boosts the main whenever I drive. When on trips, its not usually trickle charged at all.

I’ve also had unusually ling-lived AGM batteries. So…I’m an up-vote on the HKB…at least for alternators similar to mine (I seem to recall a change happened with the 2016 updates, but not certain of that).

 

[kcjaz]

My significant diode experience disagrees with the theory that it somehow damages the alternator. It hasn’t in my case, and…
…I’ve run both versions (adjustable and non-adjustable) of the HKB for years now …and I’m still on my *original alternator* that was built into my 15 year old 200 series in 2007 (built in late 2007 as a 2008 model).

I run massive power via my two AGMs 24/7/365….trickle charge when parked at home…and HKB boosts the main whenever I drive. When on trips, its not usually trickle charged at all.

I’ve also had unusually ling-lived AGM batteries. So…I’m an up-vote on the HKB…at least for alternators similar to mine (I seem to recall a change happened with the 2016 updates, but not certain of that).

How did you adjust the adjustable HKB i(how much boost)? What voltage are you running? I assume you switched from the non-adjustable one to adjustable because you wanted more boost?

Also, from the reading I’ve done, the concern over potential diode boost damage seems to be more about the electronic systems on the vehicle. HKB warns about this but says most vehicles should be good at <15v.

 

[Markuson]

How did you adjust the adjustable HKB i(how much boost)? What voltage are you running? I assume you switched from the non-adjustable one to adjustable because you wanted more boost?

Also, from the reading I’ve done, the concern over potential diode boost damage seems to be more about the electronic systems on the vehicle. HKB warns about this but says most vehicles should be good at <15v.

To be clear…
-The device does NOT actually “boost” power.
-All its doing is tricking your alternator into responding as it would if your battery was low. So… No boost. Just telling your alternator it needs to stay on its nirmal, higher output a bit more readily.

So… No danger to the system, as your alternator regularly hits its higher rate anyway…just doesn’t stay at that level as long without the HKB.

AGM batteries need higher charge input…so this simply puts your alternators capability to use as best as it can. STILL…its not reaching ideal AGM-level output…but it stays closer. So its a HELP, but still not ideal.

But anyway… This is why I do NOT believe it damages the system at all…..because its not actually boosting to levels beyond what the system already handles from the alternator output.

Youe Q about my HKB level…
—I’ll have to check as I frankly can’t remember now. Been several years since I last set it. And yes. I switched to the adjustable to play with levels.

*If I forget to check & post…pester me tomorrow and I’ll go check my switch settings.

Markuson

 

[TeCKis300]

To be clear…
-The device does NOT actually “boost” power.
-All its doing is tricking your alternator into responding as it would if your battery was low. So… No boost. Just telling your alternator it needs to stay on its nirmal, higher output a bit more readily.

So… No danger to the system, as your alternator regularly hits its higher rate anyway…just doesn’t stay at that level as long without the HKB.

AGM batteries need higher charge input…so this simply puts your alternators capability to use as best as it can. STILL…its not reaching ideal AGM-level output…but it stays closer. So its a HELP, but still not ideal.

But anyway… This is why I do NOT believe it damages the system at all…..because its not actually boosting to levels beyond what the system already handles from the alternator output.

Youe Q about my HKB level…
—I’ll have to check as I frankly can’t remember now. Been several years since I last set it. And yes. I switched to the adjustable to play with levels.

*If I forget to check & post…pester me tomorrow and I’ll go check my switch settings.

Markuson

Glad it's working but sounds like you're having to tender with an external charger regularly. A PITA no?

The challenge with boosting output for AGMs is only part of the problem and you're right that voltage itself isn't a big deal. Where it is more stress on the alternator is that AGMs have low internal resistance compared to FLA. That's how they're able to charge quicker than FLAs, advertised up 5x faster. Which means its sucking down much more current from the alternator.

Incrementally more voltage from the diode mod, and potentially 5x the current output adds up to be a big deal in load, heat, and stress on the alternator. Especially if the batts are in a low state of charge. Same reason why lithium's have been known to burn up alternators, but even more aggressively.