bad brakes (1 Viewer)

[blackandblue]

Help all you landcruiser gurus. put a new master cylinder on the truck just pulled the front calipers open and found probaly 5 of the 8 stiff but i got them free and move now, and i have the rear adjuster set right(about 4 to 5 turns off the cant turn anymore point), and i bled the brakes, and i dont see any leaks. Now the problem, brakes have been continually getting harder to stop i push on the pedal and it goes about half way down and then solid pedal but i can stand on the brakes and it takes an eternity to stop. Someone help me im at my wits end and dont want to just get in there and start throwing parts at it cause im in the process of buying a house and my wife would kill me. The only thing i notice as odd is the front rotors are polished, glazed smooth as glass. i roughed them up but havent turned them yet and the pads were smooth too but i ground them up a little. So where should i be looking at next Hellllllppppp. I also recently lifted about 4 inches but i've only lately noticed the goofy brakes. And all the lines are good and not stretched or anything. Once again Helppppp.


Thanks again
Bryon

 

[hj60]

When you took the old master off, did you notice any fluid seeping into the
booster?
If yes, there's your problem.
If not, it may still be the booster, namely the check valve. Not sure you
can get that seperately, though.
I'm in the same exact situation, and suspect my booster is going south.

 

[blackandblue]

are there any other tests for the booster because id hate to just go get one and find out it wasnt it. But from what i remember there was no fluid in there. Helllppppp I wanna spend money on good stuff like sliders and lockers and big tires.

Thanks all
Bryon

 

[hj60]

You can take the master off again, and stick a long cotton swab into the
booster to see if there's fluid in there.
Also, with the engine off, pump the breaks a few dozen times to blead off
any residual vacuum. Hold the brake as far down as it'll go and turn the engine on. Pedal should slowly sink to the floor. Turn the motor back off.
Should take 3 or 4 good pumps to bleed off vacuum noticably.
If it doesn't do all of the above, I'd consider a new booster. Or check valve,
if it's available seperately. Try Cruiserparts.net.

 

[blackandblue]

all the check are good. I pulled off the vacuum line and the check valve works and its getting vacuum and while i had it off i tried the brakes and they acted just as they have been with it alll connected up. So i guess this is telling me that the booster is bad??? I just want a second third or fourth opinion before i go tell the wife i have to spend another 250$ on a truck she is growing to hate. So help me out guys i done want to get rid of my beast.

THanks again
Bryon

 

[blackandblue]

ok here is the latest on my brakes when i pull the vacuum line off the idle doesnt really change but i do have vacuum. now the question i have is that little bellows looking thing attached to the manifold i hear gets clogged. Well do i just run a drillbit in there and clean it out or is it already allright and i need a new booster. Someone end my nightmare please.


thanks
bryon

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Bryon-there is a test proceedure for the booster in the factory manual. I wouldn't give up on it without for sure knowing it's bad.

I'm quoting Mr. Toyota, '84 chassis manual page BR-6

1. Operating check
(a)Depress the brake pedal several times with the engine off, and check that there is no change in the pedal reserve distance.

(b)Depress the brake pedal and start the engine. If the pedal goes down slightly, operation is normal.

2. Air Tightness
(a) Start the engine and stop it after one or two minutes. Depress the brake pedal several times slowly. If the pedal goes down furtherest(sic) the first time, but gradually rises after the second or third time, the booster is air tight.

(b)Depress the brake pedal while the engine is running, and stop it with the pedal depressed. If there is no change in the pedal reserve travel after holding the pedal for 30 seconds, the booster is air tight.

Good luck, let us know what your test shows.

 

[60wag]

Definitely check the vac hose fitting on the intake manifold. Its easy to remove. If you can't see through it, clean it out with a drill. When its are restricted, the first pedal push has more power assist than subsequent pushes because the vac can't recover fast enough.

I have also had a booster fail on my 84FJ60. I was driving home from a camping trip towing my pop up trailer. A traffic light changes in front of me and go to stop. Yeow! I was standing on the brake pedal. I stopped before running through the intersection but it sure got my heart rate up. There is a booster rebuilder in Denver. I took it to him and he was able to test it. After testing it, he informed me that the part that failed was not available and the booster couldn't be rebuilt. He had another one hand that worked me so I bought that one for about $200.

 

[blackandblue]

well the operational check it passes as for the tightness check im going back out to check that out but i just swapped vacuum lines from the pcv valve and the power brake booster there is a ton more vacuum coming out of the pcv line but when i hook it up still the same pedal feel stiff about half way down and brakes slow to work. well off to see what else i can get

later
Bryon

 

[blackandblue]

well the booster tests air tight so now what do i do it seeems to be the booster because with or without vacuum the brakes operate the same but i hate to spend the 250 or more to find out its something else. Anyone help me


Thanks all
Bryon

 

[blackandblue]

anyone out there help!!!!!!!!!!!! I bought a cylinder rebuild kit and have done them and surprise still no difference. I just put on a rebuilt master cylinder about a month ago, needless to say i called them up and tuesday I'm getting a new one and while its off ill check the booster by eye and see if i see anything . Now what about the proportioning valve?? Is there a check for this or if it is clogged could it be my problem. Come on guys done give up on me yet i can almost see the light at the end of the tunnel.......God no they look like jeep headlights.

THanks guys
Bryon

 

[HZJ60 Guy]

Well here's what I would do (read did) go to a Toyota junk yard and buy a FJ80 power booster. Then buy a new or reconditioned FJ80 master cylinder. Then change your front disks to '96 or later IFS four runner vented disks and four runner four piston calipers. Then do the same in the back. You will have a rig that will stop on a DIME everytime.


Anyways, that's an idea.


TB

 

[60wag]

If the vac source to the booster isn't clogged, I think your booster has failed. The proportioning valve is on the hydraulic side of the system and wouldn't make the pedal feel hard. Are there any booster rebuilders near you? Its not hard to remove the whole thing and take it to someone to have it tested.

 

[blackandblue]

ok here is yet another stupid question. I finally got the new master cylinder only because it was free. and i tore apart the proportioning valve and it was dirty but operational, put it all together and bled the brakes the rear bled fine pedal to the floor, but when i bled the front ones the pedal only went halfway like the master cylinder or something wasnt leting it go all the way down. Could this be the proportioning valve or am i stil destined for a new booster. I just want to get back out to the trails.

Thanks all
Bryon

 

[Rollin'in'Zona]

Balckandblue: DId you ever figure this out? I'm really interested, and may have some ideas for you if you did not.

 

[Rollin'in'Zona]

FJ80 / 4Runner / 62 brake conversion

Well here's what I would do (read did) go to a Toyota junk yard and buy a FJ80 power booster. Then buy a new or reconditioned FJ80 master cylinder. Then change your front disks to '96 or later IFS four runner vented disks and four runner four piston calipers. Then do the same in the back. You will have a rig that will stop on a DIME everytime.


Anyways, that's an idea.


TB

Hey TB,

This sounds GREAT! I've dumped over $1200 into FJ62 brakes in past 5 years - everything, EVERYTHING has been replaced w/ new oem 62 parts including calipers, lspv, master etc... (SS flexi brake lines are the only aftermarket) and they still suck (booster is only thing not replaced, but it checks out ok).

I have a few questions:

1) did the 4Runner calipers just bolt on?

2) what year did you use?

3) how did they mount to the rear?

4) parking brake?

5) proportioning valve needs?

Thanks!

R

 

[Ned.B]

As a tech response, what I have to say seems a little bit aimless, but if anyone knows more about proportioning valves in the brake system, I'd be curious, even if it isn't applicable to the problem in this thread. ...

If you haven't found any of the vac/booster system at fault, consider whether the brakes ARE working at the rear wheels. Your description of the condition of the front disks, as you found them, might suggest that the disk brakes are doing all the work, and getting really hot as a result.

I've never done the drum brake test I am thinking about, but in theory you *could* sort of test the rears to verify that they're hauling the 'cruiser down when you stand on the pedal: Inspect the pads and drums for signs of pad wear, and while yer in there use some chalk or pencil graphite or prussian blue on the inside of the drums. Then go fo4r a drive. Then re-inspect the drums to see how the indicator you left in there has fared--all rubbed off by brake pads?

I'm asking this obvious question because in the back of my mind, I remember over-hearing something about the supposedly right way to bleed a brake system that has a proportioning valve in it. I've never given any special consideration to the proportioning valve, and I'm reasonably successful at brake work, so maybe what I overheard was nothing more than some idle engineer's theory or fantasy (or my own brain fart). In other words, unless someone with FJ60 brake expertise confirms it, take it with a grain of salt and don't worry about it, OK? Here's what I think I heard:

If you don't take this valve into account when bleeding at all four wheels (even one at a time), I think the problem was that you'd end up not replacing the fluid in one branch off the proportioning valve (whether that means you end up with air in the lines after bleeding, or simply will get left with old water-saturated fluid to corrode the lines, I can't say, sorry, but I suspect it is the former--air left in the brake lines). Anyway, I got the impression that it is dangerous not to take the valve into consideration in some circumstances, like when bleeding brakes while parked on an incline.

The disclaimer: it was a few years back that I heard this (memory of it is cloudy) AND I wasn't really paying attention because I have a tendency to dismiss and ignore safety advice when it goes against my work habits. I'm throwing this out to you just in case it means anything to your braking problem. I am not an expert, so take it with a grain of a salt.

That said, I will go try and pick up the trail again with the guy I heard it from. If I get more clarity about this business, I'll post the substantive stuff here in the next couple of days.

BTW, I went for months without having functioning rear brakes on my FJ60. Ya sure, ya betcha that stopping was hard, and dicey too--it pulled to one side pretty hard after a while. When I finally got all four brakes working again, it was a revelation just how good the brakes are when they work right. There are parts of the system that give me doubts--I am not a true believer in the "self-adjusting brakes" mechanism, because mine only seem to go looser, never tighter--but the brakes in an FJ60 are designed well enough, when they're working.

Good luck, and sorry if I've muddied the water .

--Ned

 

[Ned.B]

Hey BlacknBlue--

It is possible that the 4" lift hasn't worked out with your brakes load sensing (the proportioning valve). Take a look at this:

http://www.off-road.com/toyota/cheaptricks/brakevalve/


The other thing I was trying to get at, about bleeding brakes, seems to come down to this: most proportioning valves have an activate pressure and a bypass pressure. The guy I referred to simply says that the best way to bleed brakes is by gravity to avoid activating the valve. He also says that if you use the usual method of pressing the pedal and holding it while opening the bleeder, that you'll overcome the proportioning valve (it will be bypassed) and you'll be able to bleed fronts and rears just fine. I'm not sure what this means, as that's the only way I've ever done it. Gravity method anyone?

Anyway, hope this helps.

 

[Rollin'in'Zona]

LSPV / lift issue and fix:

Hey BlacknBlue--

It is possible that the 4" lift hasn't worked out with your brakes load sensing (the proportioning valve).

LSPV / suspension lift issue and fix:

There was a massive improvement in my "lifted" 62's braking when I installed a bracket under the LSPV-arm mount on the rear axle. I raised it the same # of inches as the lift, effectively negeting the effect of the lift on the LSPV.

I used 1" square steel stock, cut to exact shape / size as bracket on axle, drilled 'em, stacked 'em, and bolted 'em on. Took about an hour. What a difference! Cost about $6.00. Made more of a difference than the total $1200 I put into the brakes previously.

ALSO, bleed that LSPV!!! I unbolted all of the brake lines running the length of the vehicle (10 minutes) and very carefully "twisted" the unit so that the bleed nipple was facing nearly vertically upward. Had to hold it there while girlfriend worked pedal. Sure enough, even after three professional pressure bleeds (one @ dealer!), there was an air bubble lodged in the LSPV.

Damn thing