Axle shaft grief

[dieselbigot]

ok, so I completely tore down the front axle on my BJ70 to give it a total overhaul, bearings, seals, rebuilt 3rds w/ 4.56 gears, the works. It was long overdue and I wanted to get rid if the stock brake lines & backing plate set-up at the same time to make trail repairs easier.

My PS goes together without a hitch, everything works great...then comes the DS, I get everything together and get to the point where I'm installing the C clip onto the end of the Birf and the damn thing won't go on....It's about 1 mm short of the C clip seating properly.

So I break out a 12mm bolt and thread it into the end of the Birf so I can give it a yank...nope, no go. So I take everything apart again to see if the rotor/hub assembly is seating on the spindle properly....yep, looks good. The rear hub seal is seated flush with the hub, the new bearing races are all seated right....ok, lets put the rotor/hub back on the spindle....everything looks perfect except when I put the outer bearing on along with the thrust washer and the adjusting nut, I bearly have any threads left on the spindle! WTF???? Basially the entire Hub/Rotor assembly with the wheel bearings is sticking out off the spindle 1-2 mm too far out

I've triple checked every single thing from the knuckle to the spindle and everything is right....this is not rocket science for christ sakes!

So I decide, fawk it....I put everything together and run w/o the C clip.....but now when I put my brake caliper on, the outside of my rotor rubs against the caliper making it impossibe the turn the rotor by hand......Has anyone ever experienced this??? Any ideas? I'm desperate here...

 

[beanz2]

Tried to call you on the cellphone . . .

The spindle seal rubber like in this picture is often stiff and doesn't let your hub sit all the way in along the spindle. Push the hub in all the way, make sure the seal rides on the inner shoulder of the hub

Dave

 

[cruiser_guy]

Dave,
I've never experienced that problem with the spindle seal rubber. I have however had the spindle seal rubber deform and break. I had to replace mine last month when I rebuilt the front axle Normally I don't worry about that seal much as it doesn't actually seal anything. Down here though with the dirt and dust it was a good idea to replace it since it was busted.

 

[dieselbigot]

Dave

I tried pushing the hub in all the way...I sorta slammed the rotor/hub up against the spindle and I swear it was making contact.

So what about getting rid of that dust seal since I ditched my backing plates anyways....bad idea?

B

 

[beanz2]

Dave,
I've never experienced that problem with the spindle seal rubber. I have however had the spindle seal rubber deform and break. I had to replace mine last month when I rebuilt the front axle Normally I don't worry about that seal much as it doesn't actually seal anything. Down here though with the dirt and dust it was a good idea to replace it since it was busted.

Well, I figured Toyota put it there for something. Otherwise the only barrier between the hub bearing and the dust outside is just the one seal.

Dave

 

[cruiser_guy]

Dave

I tried pushing the hub in all the way...I sorta slammed the rotor/hub up against the spindle and I swear it was making contact.

So what about getting rid of that dust seal since I ditched my backing plates anyways....bad idea?

B

If you've ditched the backing plates what's holding the caliper? Did you fabricate some sort of bracket or just cut way sheet metal? If you've fabricated a bracket, does that bracket fit as the backing plate did, ie: between the spindle and the knuckle? If it fits there is it the SAME thickness and geometry as the backing plate was? I'm trying to wrap my mine around how all that might affect the spacing of the axle, "C" clip and caliper.

 

[beanz2]

If you've ditched the backing plates what's holding the caliper? . . . I'm trying to wrap my mine around how all that might affect the spacing of the axle, "C" clip and caliper.

He got rid of the sheet metal shield, the caliper bolts directly to the knuckle housing. If he got rid of the plates, if anything, the spindle should stick out farther rather than getting the c-clip groove buried.

Another theory I discussed with Brett on the phone is the placement of the inner bearing race within the hub. He replaced the bearings too. If it is not pressed in all the way, the hub would sit farther out on the spindle.

Dave

 

[Greg_B]

I'm with Dave. On a number of axle rebuilds I have had to work a little to get the hub past the seal. One seal on my BJ60 was quite the bear. Little bit of grease on the hub, little bit of even force and the hub/rotor assembly popped into place.

The backing plate does not mount the calipers. Bolts right to the knuckle, and the long arm with the two holes for the caliper bolts that is attached to the backing plate sites on the outside of the caliper. Should not effect anything.

Brett, what lines did you use to bypass the backing plate? Stainless? Do you have a part number? How long are they? I have thought about maintaining the backing plate, and simply bypassing the fitting on the back of it...Trouble is to find the correct fittings for both ends that a VI shop will be happy with.

gb

 

[beanz2]

There was a thread on the POR about some 3 months ago about the correct part numbers for a rubber brake line that goes from the axle brake line directly to the caliper, Greg. IIRC either Boston Mangler, cruiserbrett or td posted it.



Dave

 

[Greg_B]

Is this it Dave? http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153233

Lots of good info. Whatever I do needs to be ok for the VI shops. I phoned a few aftermarket 4x4 shops in the area that do minitruck stuff, and all backed right off when I said what I wanted...

Sorry for the hijack Brett. Thread content...push harder

gb

 

[cruiser_guy]

He got rid of the sheet metal shield, the caliper bolts directly to the knuckle housing. If he got rid of the plates, if anything, the spindle should stick out farther rather than getting the c-clip groove buried.

Another theory I discussed with Brett on the phone is the placement of the inner bearing race within the hub. He replaced the bearings too. If it is not pressed in all the way, the hub would sit farther out on the spindle.

Dave

Sorry, my bad. I'd bet the bearing races as well, now that you mention it. They don't always seat real nicely. I've always had room on the "C" clip groove. Usually I can move the axle 1-2mm in or out after the "C" clip is on. I still can't imagine the seal keeping the hub out of position once you torque up the wheel bearing preload. I'd think you'd mess up the seal if it wasn't in right.

 

[beanz2]

Is this it Dave? http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153233

Lots of good info. Whatever I do needs to be ok for the VI shops. I phoned a few aftermarket 4x4 shops in the area that do minitruck stuff, and all backed right off when I said what I wanted...

Yep, that's the one.

Greg, is your aim bypassing the backing plate bracket for easier trail repairs? I've seen guys drill out the tack weld that keeps the brake line bracket on the backing plate to allow the bracket to unbolt. This makes the caliper easier to move out of the way when doing birf repairs.

Of course if you have 30 spline Longfields you don't have to worry about doing this anymore

How is it going, Brett? Charles, Greg and I are just like guys who hang out in your garage, standing around and watching you work on your truck while chatting and drinking beer . . .

Dave

 

[Greg_B]

Greg, is your aim bypassing the backing plate bracket for easier trail repairs? I've seen guys drill out the tack weld that keeps the brake line bracket on the backing plate to allow the bracket to unbolt. This makes the caliper easier to move out of the way when doing birf repairs.

Of course if you have 30 spline Longfields you don't have to worry about doing this anymore

How is it going, Brett? Charles, Greg and I are just like guys who hang out in your garage, standing around and watching you work on your truck while chatting and drinking beer . . .

Dave

Yes, simp;ly that Dave. Good idea.

I was thinking 27 spline for the BJ74...

Narry a beer past these lips in months Dave. Make mine a water or something boring like that for a while yet...

Brett, got any stools in the garage for us?

gb

gb

 

[dieselbigot]

Well I'd better perform now that I have so damn many people standing around my virtual garage

Greg, I just went to a hot rod shop and bought a couple of 12" SS lines with 2 10mm female ends for each line, worked perfectly....I got to s***-can the backing plates (I've swaped out a number of trail Birfs now with the no backing plate set-up and it sure makes for quick changes when youre only dealing with 8 nuts)

...So now I have my stock hard line from the axle, the SS flex line, then the short hard line off the caliper. (No more having to bleed brakes either )

Thx for the input boys...I think I'll get up early tomorrow and work over that dust seal and get this thing to seat properly

 

[beanz2]

Save the backing plates for me, Brett

Dave

 

[dieselbigot]

will do...but FYI, one of the brake line junctions is stripped and I couldn't get a brake line to thread in it...

I still have your 3rd here also....do you need it soon or just next time I see you?

 

[beanz2]

No problems, a quick trip to PnP will take care of that.

I'm in no rush to get the 3rd back for now. Next time we meet.

Dave