Another....sage grouse!!!

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chicago

chicago

Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Threads
434
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9,610
Location
Reno, Nevada
Based upon my not-so-insignificant travels in Nevada along with several of my hunting buddies (not sage grouse hunters) we have seen a significant uptick in the sage grouse population over the past 10+ years. I can't give you scientific study data but just off-the-cuff observations.

In some areas sage grouse population numbers are so high they seemingly outnumber chukar populations!

The one caveat the FWS and BLM are reticent to discuss is the negative impact predators (non-man) have on sage grouse leks and subsequent population numbers. Coyotes, bobcats and to a greater extent (IMHO), crows and magpies, have a detrimental impact on sage grouse eggs in the nest.

You can certainly smell what the guberment is up to on this: Go extreme wide in its threat scope and then "settle' for the middle. Except the "middle" position, regarding the sheer amount of surface acres it might entail, is still very significant in how it will impact recreation (hunting, sight-seeing, off-road exploring, camping, fishing, etc.) and commerce and yet have very little positive impact on sage grouse numbers.

These extremists, federal agencies/employees, lobbyists and otherwise, will keep pushing until someone/something bigger pushes back (not likely).

At the end of the day, again in my humble opinion, they will have spent countless millions or billions of precious resource dollars (WTF...the guberment is over 3 trillion dollars in debt...you'd never know!) on a veiled subjugate alter-agenda that will do little to nothing to enhance the populations of wild sage grouse.

Key phrase: "Alternate agenda".
 
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I will communicate my thoughts on this matter to both parties as a concerned outdoor enthusiast. I come from a relatively neutral position as I am not a hunter nor a huge political activist. I do appreciate natures beauty in the form of all of its creatures. I will not sacrifice everything else that nature provides in order to protect a single species of bird. It would seem that people have forgotten the first rule of nature. Evolution will occur with or with out man, and not as a result of man. Please don't mistake my comments for a disinterest in taking care of our environment, I am the first to pull off the side of the trail and pull out a trash bag when the opportunity arises, but I have always looked at nature like the Supercar sitting in the garage (how can you appreciate it if you never get it out and spend some time behind the wheel?) Who will appreciate the majesty of the Sage grouse or any of the other thousands of species in these locations when no one has access? Lastly thanks Keith for bringing this matter to my attention.
 
EXCELLENT!!!

Thanks for standing up Shane!!
 
Both Dan and Shane bring up and articulate excellent points. Too bad you can't get extremist and illogical people to understand logic and common sense.

Jack
 
What's insane is we have to react to something that really doesn't matter. They just use X blade of grass or Y creature as the scapegoat for the greater agenda.
Maddening!!
Shane (tahoe40) had a really interesting story of this type of crap from his family ranch and what the greens did there. Campfire story, for sure!!
 
Espresso,
I'm sure you've written about this and are far more savvy...
A little guidance on how to draft something??
 
I am more cynical than most.

This is NOT about a bird. That is just the excuse that's being used this time. We have few biological indications that the bird is in decline, only that insufficient historical data exists to map the species. Lawyers dream about this because it makes them very rich at our expense. They charge the Fed $250/hr on BOTH sides. Teaming up with enviro's and Statists make this ploy that much more powerful and dangerous to Liberty.

Unfortunately, the battleground will be in court, and biologists the merc's. The ESA as interpreted and enforced, leaves little wiggle room. This will drag out until they find a new "bird" or they remove free access from all BLM lands.

Frankly, I think the best way to fight these roaches is to attack their funding. AKA tort reform.
 
psreno said:
I am more cynical than most.

This is NOT about a bird. That is just the excuse that's being used this time. We have few biological indications that the bird is in decline, only that insufficient historical data exists to map the species. Lawyers dream about this because it makes them very rich at our expense. They charge the Fed $250/hr on BOTH sides. Teaming up with enviro's and Statists make this ploy that much more powerful and dangerous to Liberty.

Unfortunately, the battleground will be in court, and biologists the merc's. The ESA as interpreted and enforced, leaves little wiggle room. This will drag out until they find a new "bird" or they remove free access from all BLM lands.

Frankly, I think the best way to fight these roaches is to attack their funding. AKA tort reform.
Click to expand...

AMEN!!!
 
Just got this via BRC email....
NEVADA-CALIFORNIA - BLM and FS Release Draft NV-CA Sub-Region Sage-grouse EIS

Dear BRC Action Alert Subscriber,

The Bureau of Land Management and Forest Service released the Draft Nevada and Northeastern California Sub-regional Greater Sage-grouse Land Use Plan Amendment and Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DLUP/DEIS) for a 90-day public comment period that closes January 29, 2014.

The DLUP/DEIS considers six possible management alternatives for maintaining and increasing habitat for Greater Sage-grouse on BLM and Humboldt-Toiyabe National Forest lands in Nevada and Northeastern California. More than 17 million acres of Greater Sage-grouse habitat are managed by the BLM and Forest Service within the sub-regional area.

Written comments related to the Nevada and Northeastern California Sub-Regional Sage-grouse DLUP/DEIS can be submitted by any of the following methods:
Web site: http://on.doi.gov/14ZD3Rb
email: blm_nv_ca_sagegrouse_eis_comments@blm.gov `
mail: BLM - Greater Sage Grouse EIS, Attn: Joe Tague, 1340 Financial Blvd. Reno, NV 89502

Copies of the DLUP/DEIS are available at the following offices and on the web site at: http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/prog/wildlife/greater_sage-grouse.html

Public workshops related to the DLUP/DEIS will be held in December. The locations and times are posted below.

Thursday December 5, 2013
Meeting time 5:30 - 7:30 pm
Homewood Suites
5450 Kietzke Lane
Reno, Nevada

Monday December 9, 2013
Meeting time 5:30 - 7:30 pm
Tonopah Convention Center
301 Brougher Avenue
Tonopah, Nevada

Tuesday December 10, 2013
Meeting time 5:30 - 7:30 pm
Bristlecone Convention Center
150 Sixth Street
Ely, Nevada

Wednesday December 11, 2013
Meeting time 5:30 - 7:30 pm
Shilo Inn
2401 Mountain City Hwy.
Elko, Nevada

Wednesday December 11, 2013
Meeting time 5:30 - 7:30 pm
Shilo Inn
2401 Mountain City Hwy.
Elko, Nevada

The Nevada and Northeastern California Greater Sage-grouse EIS is one of 15 EISs that are being conducted as part of BLM's and Forest Service's west-wide National Greater Sage-Grouse planning effort, to provide additional measures to maintain and increase Greater Sage-grouse habitat on public lands to preclude the birds listing.

For more information on the National Greater Sage-Grouse Planning Strategy and the progress in other subregions visit http://www.blm.gov/sagegrouse.

Thanks for your review of this all too important matter.

Don Amador
Western Representative
BlueRibbon Coalition, Inc.
 
I would really like to attend but have to be in Tahoe tonight for a meeting. Can anyone represent?
 
I went.
WAS REALLY CROWDED and LOUD!!
Seems to be that there was a large mining, hunting, ranching and tree hugger representation there.
A lot, I don't understand and have yet to find a way to intelligently comment. ALL of the information provided was based around the idea that the sage grouse IS endangered and humans and their activities are bad and need to be excluded from the world. Option A, is the do nothing option and leave it the way it is.
There doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in the wheeling community re. this and virtually NONE of the organizations that represent OHV are helping w/ the drive efforts to get its members to comment . Jan 29 is the comment deadline.
 
Way to represent now its up to the rest of us to make our voices heard!! Thanks
 
I just asked for help on the writing for comment on NV4WD FB page. It seems there is interest in drafting a comment, but no one really KNOWS good facts to write in opposition re. This issue.
I see the same post from the ORGs as posted above, but nothing about HOW to comment and respond.
I'm at a loss still.
 
After receiving our club confirmation letter I replied w/ a request for writing points on the sage grouse issue.
This was the w mail back

Keith,

I'm pleased that you are doing research and have interest in the Greater Sage-Grouse issue. This is a huge threat, being disguised as a "minor" threat, to our sport.

We had our Association BoD meeting on the 5th so there was no one there in attendance at the meeting in Reno. However, we attended the meeting that was held by US Fish & Wildlife Service (FWS), BLM and US Forest Service in Wellington last month. Although that meeting was for the Distinct Population Segment (DPS) of the Greater Sage-Grouse, the issue is the same for the remainder of the state.

We are finalizing "writing points" and will issue an alert to our membership asking them to respond to the joint BLM/USFS Environmental Impact Statement before the January 29, 2014 deadline. At this time, I believe that the comment date will be pushed out as local and county governments, as well as the State of Nevada, are realizing the economic impact (which wasn't studied by the FWS before issuing the decision to list as the Greater Sage-Grouse as "Threatened" and the accompanying designation of Critical Habitat.

This Sage-Grouse issue affects ten western states and all of these states are waking up to the economic impact issue.

At any rate, the N4WDA BoD is atop this issue with Phil Bender, our Treasurer from Reno, and myself as the leads on the Sage-Grouse problem. We are working with the Blue Ribbon Coalition, the Pine Nut Mountain Trail Association and other groups to coordinate our efforts.

Welcome as a member,

Larry
 
Somewhat related: This mornings news...

Draw your own conclusions...

GRANTS PASS, Ore. – An experiment to see if killing invasive barred owls will help the threatened northern spotted owl reverse its decline toward extinction is underway in the forests of Northern California.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service said Friday that specially trained biologists have shot 26 barred owls in a study area on the Hoopa Valley Indian Reservation northeast of Arcata, Calif.

They plan to remove as many as 118 barred owls from the area, keeping the 55 known barred owl nesting sites open over the next five years to see if spotted owls increase, said Fish and Wildlife Service biologist Robin Bown. Contractors go to an area that barred owls are known to be in, play a digital caller to attract them, and shoot the birds with a shotgun.

The service is spending $3.5 million over six years to remove 3,600 barred owls from sites in Oregon, Washington and California.

Barred owls migrated from the East in the 1950s and have become the single biggest threat to spotted owl survival.

Major cutbacks in logging in old growth forest that spotted owls prefer as habitat have not turned around their population decline, and scientists want to see if removing competition from the more aggressive barred owl will make a difference.

Barred owl removal at research sites in Oregon and Washington state is set to begin next fall.

By then, the group Friends of Animals hopes to persuade a federal judge to issue a court order stopping the experiment. A lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court in Sacramento, Calif., argues the permits for killing barred owls issued under the Migratory Bird Act are invalid. The research does not benefit the barred owl, said Friends of Animals attorney Michael Harris.

It is not unusual to kill one species to help a threatened or endangered one. Cormorants and sea lions are regularly killed to help salmon.

Bown said blood and genetic samples are taken from each barred owl that is killed, and the frozen carcasses are sent to the California Academy of Sciences in San Francisco, where they are available for further research.

Among other things, scientists are checking the barred owls for toxins from prey contaminated with rat poison put out by illegal marijuana growers to protect their crops. Scientists hope to get a better picture of whether the rat poison is killing spotted owls, which eat similar prey. Scientists rarely get a dead spotted owl they can test for toxins.
 
I was speaking with someone who has first hand knowledge of dealing with environmental issues that limit land use. A few things came out that I was not fully aware of.

I was not aware that Lawyers actually seek out cases that they can support the environmentalist cause. They consider these issues "Cash Cows". An attorney that I spoke with explained to me that when they take on an environmental case involving something determined in a cubicle as "endangered" OUR government funds them and it is basically a blank check. So, no matter what the cause ( Spotted Owl, Sage Grouse, Desert Tortoise, or some flower?) the opposing side will be funded with our tax dollars being paid to an attorney who typically has no other reason to be involved than dragging out legal proceedings to assure lots of hefty court costs. There is a retired attorney that is consulting with the Farm and Ranch community in the Northwest and trying to help them organize and save their lands. I will try to contact this gentleman and see if he can give any advice.
 
Frickin amazing!!!
 
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