Another Hesitating/Missing/Rough Idling 89' 3FE

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Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Threads
24
Messages
101
Location
Yonkers, NY (Finland now)
I have been reading a lot of the posts on this topic that seems to be the norm as the 3FES get up their in miles like my 89' with 174K miles does. The latest post that I have been following suggests that it may be my TPS Sensor but I wanted to run everything by you guys before I spend any more money than the ridiculous amount that I already have. I have tried to follow the FSM but being stupid I have done a lot of unneccesary parts changing along the way (always thinking that must be it:bang:.) Here goes a little background info.

In Park it idles roughly at 650RPM, sometimes dipping a little down, with the steering wheel visibly shaking. When I first start driving it, it really stumbles on itself for its first block driven, then that goes away (quite embarrasing every day in front of the neighbors with their useless new Porche Cayenne). Once warmed up and I stop at a light it dips down constantly to 550RPM where it wants to stall but hasnt. Flipping on the A/C is annoying but brings the RPMs up enough to settle her down.

It has 174K (almost as good as new compression as it was babied its entire life by my uncle who never brought it over 3000 RPMs.) on it and the motor has never been opened. Never even had its valves adjusted. I have given it a full tune-up with all Toyota parts, replaced the MAF, fuel pressure regulator, cold start injector (which was actually leaking gas down and somehow out the gasket of the EGR), checked and cleaned EGR, have found no vacuum leaks, everything is fine between the air filter and throttle body, repalced the coil, used fuel injector cleaners, replaced the very expensive 3 out of the 4 sensors around the thermostat housing. One was the temp sensor for the computer, the Thermotime switch for the cold start injector, and the third which I have forgotten what it is for. The IAC valve clicks three times when shut her off so I assume that it is ok. The O2 sensors are original (stupidly werent even changed at the 60K mark when Toyota replaced them for free back in the day). They are totally rusted on and can't be changed without changing the down pipes which are on the original converters for good. I dont want to get into that project yet as no check engine lights have ever been on.

The reason that I am now questioning the TPS sensor is that in Park I have found that if I bring her up to 1200 RPMs and hold it their, the idle goes up and down. Doing the same thing (if not worse) as when I am sitting at a light when it starts to dip down to 550RPM and back to 650RPM.
Thanks in advance for your help.
 
It's not hard to test the TPS, but you do need a multi-meter and feeler gauges. Even if 1 of the TPS values is off, it needs to be replaced. You say you already have the FSM, and all the instructions are in there.
My money is on the TPS judging by the symptoms.
 
Did you recently change the air filter? I managed to tear my old air cleaner hose (flexible one attached to the throttle body) which gave it all the symptoms you mentioned above. Not sure if that helps but it's one thing to check. I was in the process of giving my truck a full tune up and was wondering why it was running worse than before i tuned it up! upon further inspection, i noticed the air cleaner hose had a huge rip underneath! :)
 
I checked the hose which appears fine with no cracks is on their nice and tight.
I am a little apprehensive to mes with the TPS myself as I have honestly never changed one before. Just wanted to get some ideas on how a bad TPS would act. In another post I read that if you can find a specific RPM where it fluctuates then that is a sign of a bad TPS. If I bring her up to 1200 in Park the idle goes up and down just as when I am sitting at a light when the Cruiser fluctuates from 650RPM down to around 500.
I didnt know if the TPS could cause these two symptoms. Thanks. :hhmm:
 
I checked the hose which appears fine with no cracks is on their nice and tight.
I am a little apprehensive to mes with the TPS myself as I have honestly never changed one before. Just wanted to get some ideas on how a bad TPS would act. In another post I read that if you can find a specific RPM where it fluctuates then that is a sign of a bad TPS. If I bring her up to 1200 in Park the idle goes up and down just as when I am sitting at a light when the Cruiser fluctuates from 650RPM down to around 500.
I didnt know if the TPS could cause these two symptoms. Thanks. :hhmm:

Just for kicks pull the IAC valve (idle air control) off and clean the pintle and seat really well. Just don't drop or damage it...pretty pricey piece.
 
Aaron, I guess that you are right that I should pull the IAC off to clean it. I really didnt want to mess with it though since as it says in the FSM it is functioning correctly if you hear three clicks from it when you shut the Cruiser off. It does that.

Cruiser88- Ya I sure have changed a bunch of parts :censor:. You say to pull the codes. Would there be any point to this as the engine light has never been on. Or would the computer store some codes without setting off the light???
I havent checked fuel pressure yet. Just have to buy a new pressure tester first...
 
Aaron, I guess that you are right that I should pull the IAC off to clean it. I really didnt want to mess with it though since as it says in the FSM it is functioning correctly if you hear three clicks from it when you shut the Cruiser off. It does that.

Cruiser88- Ya I sure have changed a bunch of parts :censor:. You say to pull the codes. Would there be any point to this as the engine light has never been on. Or would the computer store some codes without setting off the light???
I havent checked fuel pressure yet. Just have to buy a new pressure tester first...
Just use your fsm on the how to pull codes.
The check engine light will not will not come on when there is a problem like most normal rigs, this one you must cross a couple of pins in the box under the hood. (A little black box on the passenger side firewall that says diagnosis on the top...you will see it mounted to the firewall under the wiper motor.....just look down).

What i would do before checking the codes is pull the EFI fuse out for a minute to unsure there is no old codes stored before you tried to read them.....then of course follow the fsm on how to pull codes at that point.
 
Just use your fsm on the how to pull codes.
The check engine light will not will not come on when there is a problem like most normal rigs, this one you must cross a couple of pins in the box under the hood. (A little black box on the passenger side firewall that says diagnosis on the top...you will see it mounted to the firewall under the wiper motor.....just look down).

What i would do before checking the codes is pull the EFI fuse out for a minute to unsure there is no old codes stored before you tried to read them.....then of course follow the fsm on how to pull codes at that point.

I will definately do that. I am just a bit confused. If I pull the EFI fuse won't it erase all of the codes that are in the computer. So then when I go to pull them none will show up because the codes have been cleared. Sorry if this is a silly question just want to know how that works. Thanks a million.
 
I will definately do that. I am just a bit confused. If I pull the EFI fuse won't it erase all of the codes that are in the computer. So then when I go to pull them none will show up because the codes have been cleared. Sorry if this is a silly question just want to know how that works. Thanks a million.
Say if your mass air flow is bad and you change it(hypothetically) that code is still stored(maybe) in the computer that it is in fact bad................so anything you change a sensor it is a good idea to pull the EFI fuse(which all that does is cuts the power to the computer and resets it).

No the moment you plug that efi fuse back in and turn the key......power is on and if their is a issue the computer will tell you.....You just do not want a "old" code in the computer giving you a false reading that is all.
 
Say if your mass air flow is bad and you change it(hypothetically) that code is still stored(maybe) in the computer that it is in fact bad................so anything you change a sensor it is a good idea to pull the EFI fuse(which all that does is cuts the power to the computer and resets it).

No the moment you plug that efi fuse back in and turn the key......power is on and if their is a issue the computer will tell you.....You just do not want a "old" code in the computer giving you a false reading that is all.

So in other words clear the codes, then run the vehicle for a little bit to see if any come up, then pull the codes. Sound about right? Thanks again for your help.
 
Aaron, I guess that you are right that I should pull the IAC off to clean it. I really didnt want to mess with it though since as it says in the FSM it is functioning correctly if you hear three clicks from it when you shut the Cruiser off. It does that.

Cruiser88- Ya I sure have changed a bunch of parts :censor:. You say to pull the codes. Would there be any point to this as the engine light has never been on. Or would the computer store some codes without setting off the light???
I havent checked fuel pressure yet. Just have to buy a new pressure tester first...

It is working but it can get carbon built up around the pintle causing idle problems. pull the three screws gently pull it away and use carb cleaner to clean the pintle and bolt her back up. it will make a huge difference in idle quality.
 
Sounds like you may need to replace the fuel filter and or possibly fuel pump sock in the tank if you have never done it or look further into a potential fuel system problem, and triple check your intake tube for cracks.

The o2 sensors can easily be done. I had the same problem as you on my 80 with the o2 sensor flanges that had frozen / rusted / nonexistant threads from age. My local exhaust guru ordered the o2 flanges which included about 6" of pipe and cut out a section of the old pipe and welded in the new for 60$. The new (pre and post) denso oem o2s were about 170$ from oxygensensors . com, were plug and play, and made a world of difference to the economy and overall performance of the 80.
 

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