Advice on reducing heat in engine compartment

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Are you still running the tranny lines through the radiator?

If so, bypass the radiator and run them through the coolers alone. See if that cools the motor down. As LCWizard alluded to, If the tranny is running hot, it can keep the motor from cooling down.
 
Since you are not running the stock engine you could use the vent in the drivers side fender to exhaust air....Mount a fan in there that blows outwards instead of the carb fan pulling air in. If you can pull more air out of the engine bay then you can can more air into the engine bay and increase your cooling capacity. You could also install a water mist system that mists water onto the coolers and radiator fins during high heat. The water evaporates and increases cooling.
 
According to engineers at Modine radiator it takes at least 5HP to efficiently cool 300 HP. This is why your twin electrics will draw 60 amps.
I've always preferred a mechanical, personally, because I found the noise of electrics were annoying.
When consulting the engineers at Howe Radiator they said that they couldn't recommend the twin 10" Spals when cooling a 40 series
with a 300HP motor in a vehicle that sees low speed crawling . Ron Davis, using the same 27 x 19 radiator template as Howe, stuffs two 12" Spals into their shrouds. They claim it would handle what we were doing but agreed that if they used the twin 10" , I would have problems.
Nissan Supercars seldom traverse rock filled washes or hours or steep grades in AZ summers. I continue using mechanical fans with
clutches as a first choice. I prefer you OEM fans over the cheap flex style. I'm pretty sure GM has a bigger development budget.
You might look at the tuning of the chip. Some of the 3rd gens, especially all aluminum blocks, give off tremendous heat under the hood.
Partly because of emissions tuning. The LS vette motor runs hot enough that you'll find a lot of forum chatter about the need for running premium plus additives to avoid pinging. This was the case with the LS vette install we did on a 40. Retuning solved it and we didn't notice much HP drop.
 
Thanks for all the great info.
 
I've seen guys running mechanical fans from bigger engines too, like the one from a Duramax or a big block. I think they have another blade or two and move a little more air.
 
According to engineers at Modine radiator it takes at least 5HP to efficiently cool 300 HP.
Nissan Supercars seldom traverse rock filled washes or hours or steep grades in AZ summers. I continue using mechanical fans with
clutches as a first choice.

Ok so there are a couple of things to consider when designing a cooling system... Firstly any rule like "it takes 5hp to cool 300hp" is a very rough estimate but depends on a number of factors.

Here is what you need to consider.

Adding more cores returns diminishing results. Eg going from a single core to dual core ISN'T doubling your cooling capacity and going from dual core to 3 core certainly won't increasing cooling by 33%. There are some terrific engineering documents from industrial applications that list the efficiency gains (ill try and find the ones I've used in the past when i get home) but from memory going single to dual adds about 50% more cooling (not double) and going from dual to 3 core only adds like 10-15% (not 33%). (Again this all depends on core thickness, material type, air speed etc) They say that there is virtually no benefit to going 4 core (which is why you almost never see it).

The reason being is the first core will see ambient temperature. So it might be 90 degree coolant with 30 degree ambient temperature, that large differential allows a lot of heat to be exchanged. But the air temp going through the second core might now be heated to say 50-60 degrees so there is less of a differential which means less efficiency in cooling. Once the air gets to the 3rd core it should be pretty close to the coolant temperature so no real cooling effect left.

Now you can combat this by increasing the speed of the air through the radiator. If the air speed is much faster it has less time to exchange heat in the first/second cores so will be cooler in the third core. This is effectively the advantage on high powered thermofans moving air at a higher speed.

It also shows why a well designed/sealed shroud is absolutely critical, air will always take the path of least resistance. Mechanical fans have to have some clearance around the fan as the engine moves on the mounts, this means a lot of the air you are feeling being blown around is actually being sucked in around the gaps of the fan blade between the shroud. To do proper testing you need to get a air speed indicator and measure the air speed in FRONT of the radiator in a number of areas (divied the radiator up into a grid of 20 blocks and take an average from each block).

Electric thermofans can be designed with very minimal gap between blade and shroud. If its properly sealed against the core it means close to 100% of the energy used by the thermofan is moving air through the core (which is key).

Now the problem with all shrouds is they still struggle to get a 100% even spread of air movement through the radiator. Usually the air speed is highest directly behind the blade and minimal in the corners. (I measured air speed of 15kp/h directly in front of the blades and as low as 2kp/h in the very corner, and this is on a very high performance setup which is almost perfectly sealed with rubber/foam).

The problem with the standard 60 series radiator is you can't really run dual thermofan as its a very "square" radiator. Thats why all modern cars run a rectangle sized radiator where twin thermofan can be used. This gives much better coverage of the core resulting in higher cooling capacity compared to a single big fan.

So having said all of that, here was my design....

Standard front panel

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Modified

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As you can see i have considerably increased the size of the opening allowing a "rectangle" type radiator to be installed. This means i can run electric dual thermofans for a much more even spread of air flow over the core and being electric the shroud gap to blades is considerably less than with a mechanical fan.

So this is the radiator i choose...

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And as you can see the twin thermofan fits almost perfectly.

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Here is the bracket i made to bolt to the radiator which supports the thermofans. It is critical to get this "level" with the radiator to ensure minimal gaps.

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Just to show the reasoning for the design this is the new heat exchanger for the airconditining at the front

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The middle radiator is actually being used as the heat exchanger for the water to air intercooler (Its a 12HT turbo diesel)

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And now the GTR radiator is mounted on the outside

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Now it is close to the engine but does fit. A V8 should be considerably shorter than the I6. The main reason for using the GTR radiator is it has the inlet/outport on the same side which suits the 12HT

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All those gaps around the edge will be sealed up (using various techniques of rubber strips and metal brackets). This should ensure all the air being drawn by the thermofans is through the radiator cores and not leaking in from the edges.

Now the reason i choose those thermofans is they are a VERY common choice here in Australia for burnout cars. So if they can cool a 750+ HP V8 on a skid pan for minutes at a time (Eg the engine constantly producing 500HP while stationary) then they shouldn't have any problems cooling an engine producing 50-150hp on the trail (I know its a much more powerful engine but you shouldn't be producing 500HP while actually 4wding, however even if you did it should support it).

So as I've said previously electric thermofans are BETTER PROVIDING they are designed and installed correctly. A simple SPAL bolted on WON'T WORK. A shroud bolted on with big gaps around the side WON'T WORK. You need an even spread to ensure airflow over the WHOLE core.

The other major advantage to thermofans with an inline assistance electric water pump is if you do start to overheat you can turn off the engine and keep the thermofans and electric water pump running to cool the engine down. With a mechanical fan you basically need to wait for the engine to cool down naturally (10+ minutes).
 
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Thanks so much, really useful information. Is the inline assistance electric water pump instead of or addition to the traditional engine driven water pump? Do you have picture of that behemoth installed?
 
Not installed yet, but this is the one i choose...

EDIT - I am using that as an ADDITIONAL pump, still have the mechanical one. Being electric it can be switched on even when the engine isn't running and it seems to pump water past the mechanical pump without issue. With a big aluminium radiator, good electric thermofans and electric water pump you could cool the engine down in 1-2 minutes rather than waiting 15+.

-7 (You can get them cheaper on ebay etc)

Now seeing as you are in the US and using a LS based motor have you considered running a Miezere electric water pump instead of the mechanical one?

Electric Pump LSx High Flow, Street Pump, 55 GPM with Idler

They aren't cheap but I'm using one on my 900hp LS track car and its absolutely brilliant. Maximum flow reguardless of engine speed, no cavitation at high rpm (the standard LS pumps are s*** above ~4500rpm as they tend to cavitate the water rather than pump it.

Some people have whinged about lifespan (They say 3000 hours) so thats something to consider but 3000 hours is probably 100,000 miles of driving anyway. You can probably rebuild it for a few hundred as well...

Edit again:

The other option to reuse your current radiator is to have a look at some of the large thermofans being used on the Mercedes 4WD... You'll have to do some research but as an example...

AC Radiator Cooling Fan Assembly Mercedes W203 C200 C230 C240 CLK320 C55 AMG | eBay

They are rated at like 67amp and move a MASSIVE amount of air. The problem i had was they are very THICK and don't fit with the I6 12HT. However with the much shorter LS motor you could probably mount one of those up and solve most of your problems. Just make sure you design a mounting system which seals the thermofan agasint the radiator. Don't leave ANY gaps.
 
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Another piece of the puzzle here is that it takes power to spin the supercharger. I've read 30 hp at full song. Less at crawling speeds. But the point is the motor has to make hp to feed itself even at idle. Creating heat to be removed.
 
Depending on the boost level the supercharger can take a LOT more. I think the HTV2300 charger on my LSX takes 200+ hp.

Edit that 200hp figure was based on the maximum load you can transmit via serpentine belts. I was getting significant belt slip on a dedicated 8 rib belt. When swapping to a gilmer belt I was advised by an engineer that superchargers can suck several hundred hp (which is why turbos are better in some regards as they only suck out 20-50hp from the engine at high boost)

Plus I assume the op has an intercooler which will be adding even more heat...

I would be looking at various forums for ls based burnout cars, burnout cars have the highest demand on cooling systems (even compared to rock crawlers)
 
even with a air tight shroud Ron Davis recommends a twin 12" system. Downside is once you hit about 200 deg. both fans turn. Each draws 25~35 amps so you have to assume 60 amps. Add AC and your alternator is taxed at 80~90 amps plus the engine operating draw of 15 or more amps for the fuel pump and injection and up to 20 on ignition you could see a constant 120 or more amps without radios, lights etc.
If you lose an alternator on the trail your battery reserve alone won't get you far at 100+ amp draw. I lost an alternator on the Hole in the Rock trail. I had a TBI 350 in my 40. I made it over 70 miles before the fuel pump quit when my voltage dropped to under 10.5v. My truck had about
a 20 amp operating draw without lights on. Adding an aux. electric fan is one thing but eliminating the mechanical completely just sets up one more catastrophic failure point. If you never wheel alone, maybe, but if you do solo trips it's best to be safe. Yes you can still lose a belt or water pump but so can the one with electric fans. Since Toyota built Cruisers to operate in the outer reaches of the planet I'm sure that reliability was in
the back of their mind when it came to cooling

28193DT-2-CUSTOM.jpg
 
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Yeah 100% agree with that. Although an LS alternator is 140amps so should handle a decent load, if it does become a problem you can buy a 240 amp alternator for around $450.

I tend to carry replacement parts so I have a spare alternator belt and a spare rectifier/board for the alternator (which is the part that usually fails).

Iirc Toyota has switched to electric fans on the new cruisers...

I personally don't like spal or any aftermarket electric fans (just a personal preference). I tend to like use OEM parts instead... which is why I'm using the ford fans. Cheap to source, reliable and good performance).
 
Spal's largest segment of their manufacturing is the OEM market. They build for nearly all manufacturers in the USA, Europe, Japan, South America ,Russia and China. A lot of GM fans were built by Spal. As electric fans go, they are pretty good. Ford seems to use a lot of Bosch
and Gates/Johnson Control, at least their control modules are

OEM fan, Chevy Volt
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This goes on a Ferrari
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Have a very similar setup in our 60. I recommend an electric fan, shroud and amp from a crown Vic on a 50amp relay, breaker and it’s own temp switch. Don’t to aftermarket fan. Also make sure your steam line is either on the radiator or upper rad hose, could also upgrade to a 4 corner steam line setup. As for supercharger, I’d keep it regardless.
 
Yeah, those heater lines are an issue. Put an “H” in them as a first step and see what that does. Excess heat in your engine bay also means excess heat on the transmission coolers.. you might see a slight drop there too.

And the mechanical fan not sufficient? Impossible! This is Ih8mud where mechanical fans are the end-all cooling system method for some reason.

And removing the supercharger? Are you serious dude? Maybe you should just put a 2F a back in it..
Actually, send that supercharger my way, I’ll even pay shipping!;)

I’m with Matt, I have a similar issue as you do, i run a 5.3 with the H55 and I only run hot in high altitudes in CO on the long steep climbs / trail runs.

Difference is, I have dual electric fans on a massive aluminum radiator, the biggest you could buy and fit.....stick with your mechanical...I would stay away from the electrical fans at all costs if you can. Reason being is that they only kick in at a certain temp, the mechanical fan is constant

After seeing @Potato launchers 60, and noticing his has some very nice hood vents I might go that route ( if you read this Casey drop a link) but before I do I’m putting an H in the heater line. At SAS i saw an 80 series with the 5.3 that had the same problems, mainly running hot as well, but he had a mechanical fan and was on average 20 degrees cooler. I saw temps up to 240 which was unnerving at times.


Try the H heater line, then maybe an electric pusher fan.

Quick tip: pop your hood on the trail, but don’t open the latch. It’ll stay secured and vent much better than any vents. The last day of the trip I tried it at the suggestion of another member....worked like a charm
 
As above you can wire up the electric fans to run at any percentage all the time with a PWM controller and switch to high speed at a certain temperature.

I have mine set just at the point before they become audiable, then switch to full speed when the engine hits 95 degree C.
 

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