Additives, Witches Brews and Snake Oil (1 Viewer)

[Greg_B]

Out of a question in the Buy Sell Trade thread the idea for this thread came up. It might be interesting to list additives, witches brews and snake oils that folk have used and seen results with over the years. While opinions often differ and the market for snake oils can polarize, there are a few that seem consistently to get good reviews. Some have testing that have shown they work. And the reverse; Some have testing that have shown they do not work. Post up your experiences with different products. Ya never know...some gems might appear. If it makes sense I'll update this 1st post with a running list.

gb

 

[Enigma]

I don't add anything. Not that I'm some kind of expert or think I know better, just generally lazy and dont give a s*** really. Been working fone for 12 years so far. Having said that, I have used on occasion some of them. The XP buy a little while, think I have a bottle of some other brand I won in a raffle recently as well.

 

[cruiserpilot]

The original question that I had from that thread.
Does anyone add zinc or anything else to their oil for the older diesels. I have 12HT and 13BT.
My surfing of the inter web had brought up some people’s ideas that the newer oils have been
formulated with differing levels of additives for newer engines and emissions reduction. Old
engines were designed with different oil formulations.
So, should I look at adding a zinc additive formulation to the oil? I sometimes add diesel fuel additive,
to keep injectors clean etc. Don’t know what I’ve got on the shelf right now. Seafoam was one,
but does it have real value? My trucks don’t see much city driving. Mostly long haul, & backroad.

 

[604mike]

I cant speak for the toyota diesels but I had a older mitsubishi diesel and went down the rabbit hole with. The problem is newer diesels are designed with different tech and clearances and emissions requirements. This can sometimes cause issues with proper lubrication properties of the older engines. There are arguments on both sides of this, some say the newer stuff is so much better that it doesn't matter and some said the older engines cant build proper oil pressure or end up with excessive blow or because of the bigger tolerances it allows more metal to metal contact because the synthetic stuff doesn't flow the same or have the same solids. I would not recommend mixing additives or oils. Some of the properties of newer oils, because they are chemicals could react and actually cause the oil to lose its lubricity. Even mixing different synthetic oils could potentially cause this. This is what I have been taught but yet to ever see a case of this. Mixing would be more likely something that could be done with non synthetic oils but you would need to really look at the ingredients as some non synthetics still have synthetic properties now. The two main ingredients that have changed are ash and sulphur. Both reduced because of emissions and build up problems with the newer engines. So these are the two main things missing from the newer oils that some swear are needed in the older trucks. There are some oils that are high ash content but they are rare and probably need to be ordered in. I looked for awhile to find something and try without luck. This stemmed for me as I did a oil change with lucas synthetic and all hell broke loose. Smoke and blow by, I thought the engine just gave up but after reading I changed to a non synthetic and the issues subsided. Without talking to some one from the actual industry who could decipher the technical mumbo without bias we are limited to basic facts. I would stay away from mixing but instead look for an oil designed for the year of engine and go with that.

 

[Betarocker]

Modern diesels generate much more power than the version of decades past. The oils have improved along the way to handle the higher torque and power.

Older diesels utilized the higher sulfur levels in the fuel as lubricity for the injection system. As the switch to LSD and then ULSD fuels came to market, the lubrication properties needed to be supplemented, but the additives sometimes caused seals shrink. The addition of bio-diesel blends seem to have fixed both the seal and lubricity issue.

During the sulfur reduction period to LSD, I'd use a few ccs of 2 stroke oil per fill. I don't know if it made a difference but I mothballed my '86 HJ60 in 2003 when the rear spring hanger rusted/snapped off the chassis, and last year my brother (member here) swapped the 2H into his FJ62 and it fired right up and ran perfectly.

 

[Greg_B]

Auto Rx

I’ve used Auto Rx with a number of my own engines. None were sludged like you see on line with some gasoline engines, however with the number of positive reviews in regards to the internal cleaning (rings included) I thought I would give it a go a few years back.

13BT - A few years after I got the BJ74 I was using BG Quick Clean and MOA for a number of oil changes. Easy access changed and I stopped using BG. Fast forward 5-7 years and I read about Auto Rx and tried it on all the vehicles.

The biggest surprise was the 3B in the BJ42. Even after an oil change (I had done a few quick changes as well at one point) new oil blacked up right away from running for a couple minutes, then shutting off, to do the final oil level check. After the initial treatment with Auto Rx, then maintenance doses, I started to notice the oil was clean at the initial check as well as for a time after.

I did not do compression checks before and after so have no hard data.

There are a few threads on Mud if you search. This is one Auto Rx thread. Lots on info at BITOG as well.

If I had a new to me vehicle with unknown or suspect maintenance I would not hesitate to use Auto Rx to baseline and get the internals clean, then do regular oil/filter changes to maintain.

As always, DYODD.

hth’s

gb

 

[Greg_B]

Hotshot Secret EDT and Diesel Extreme

Cetane: Digging around over the years I learned that the diesel we have in North America has room for improvement, when compared to much of the world. When I started this post I was focusing on Cetane numbers however, some info has led me to believe lubricity may be a concern as well, depending on where you get your diesel and time of year. Some states in the USA are better, like California. Many markets in the world spec Cetane numbers higher then we typically have in North America. In Canada the minimum is 40 Cetane. I’ll post a few links to some discussions on different forums for anyone wanting to jump down the rabbit hole. Also keep in mind with the links and this info it’s only as accurate as the date it was done.

Lubricity: In Canada there is a federal mandate that 2% of the fuel needs to be from renewable sources. And I believe it's a bit higher in BC. Biodiesel would be the inference, which means lubricity should not be the concern it once was. However this 2018 report from INFINEU states: “Canadian Renewable Fuels Regulations require fuel producers and importers to have an average renewable fuel content of at least 2% based on the volume of diesel fuel and heating distillate oil that they produce or import into Canada. However, biodiesel is not blended during the deep winter months so, as expected, none of the 13 samples collected contained FAME” So unless additive packs in the fuel address lubricity through the winter, wear is back on my radar. Wear is measured with the HFRR test. Apparently anything under 400 is excellent lubricity. Digging into the report above, 13 different fuels were tested in Canada, with an average score for HFRR of 457 and cetane of 44. Check out other places in the world. Yes, our fuel has room for improvement. It would be nice if our Cetane was over 50 and HFRR under 400. More details on each of the 13 samples from Canada are further into the report if you are interested. No brands listed. Would love to see a similar report on summer fuel, as I would think the 2% biodiesel should change the HFFR test.

Diesel Fuel Brands: I have noticed difference’s with diesel fuel in the older diesels. Shell V-Power was going in the tanks a decade or so ago. And Husky at one point. I was filling up at the local COOP for a number of years in the recent past and the 13BT and 1HD-T were smoky. Even with a variety of additives. FYI I had new tips put on the 13BT injectors in the last couple years and the pump timed. The injectors/pump on the 1HD-T were baselined when it was swapped in a number of years ago. Heard good things about PetroCan so switched to that. Did not eliminate the smoke, but it was better. On the 2003 Dodge, which is common rail and computer controlled, I have never noticed much smoke from the tailpipe, and continue to fill it at the local COOP. Seems formulations change over time so keeping an eye on it is good. As stated above…this info is only as good as today.

I have tried a number of additives, having used 2 stroke oil, Power Services, Howes, DSG 4+, etc. I’ve never run Stanadyne though have read good things about it. I just wish it was more concentrated. While I think I have noticed some differences, I can’t say I’ve noticed any huge difference with what I have tried in the past. Last year a few folk joined me in test flying XP3 fuel additive, with no one reporting any difference. That brings me to HotShot. I had heard about HotShot but never investigated it. I watch Project Farm on Youtube on occasion. He did an episode about diesel antigel and one of the test subjects was HotShot Winter Antigel. It did really well. (Stanadyne did well too). So I read up a bit and then ordered up some Extreme, EDT and one bottle of Diesel Winter Anti-Gel; The last one listed I have not used yet.

My additive of choice these last number of years has been DSG 4+ in all diesels. The Dodge at idle had sounded just a bit off to my ears for a while. Enough so that I was registering it and listening/feeling for driving changes. It was driving fine. When the HotShot Extreme came in I dosed the tank in the Dodge. Don’t recall when it happened, but during that tank what I was hearing at idle was gone. Throttle response was improved. I did a treatment with the Extreme in all vehicles and when those tanks were done switched to HotShot EDT (finishing the last of my DSG 4+ through the Dodge). Smoke was reduced to my eye. I’ve been chasing load up at idle with the 13BT for years (more on that later) and while it was not gone it was reduced. Fuel mileage via Fuelly looks to have increased slightly as well, but there may be more to that, which I will cover in another post

So, my reason for running a diesel fuel additive these days is verified for me from recent reading while putting this together; 1st for Cetane increase and 2nd for lubricity, especially in the winter months. For me it’s easiest to find an additive that does both and add it year round.

What is ya'lls experience and have any test results or different recommendations for a diesel fuel additive?

I should add in this post that I have seen and used Diesel Purge as a single dose cleaner, with excellent results. This is one of those products which, while not injection pump or injector rebuild in a can...does work well. If your diesel has a return line to the fuel tank, best to run direct from the can for the supply and return loop so it's 100% strength as opposed to a single pass then into the tank to get diluted.

As always, DYODD.

hth’s

gb

Old study on diesel additives

Discussion on fuels in Canada TDI Club. There is some good reading about fuels, oils and additives if you want to search in the TDI forums.

And some Mud threads

Diesel smoke questions? Read this first!

I have mensioned this in a previous post but I thought id start a thread specificaly for this. My 81 will start to puff quite a bit of blue smoke only after extended periods of low idle like when I am out hunting and crawling slowly along logging roads. This is the only time it ever blows...

forum.ih8mud.com

Anyone runing additives in their fuel?

Is anyone running additives in their mechanical injected diesel? I read somewhere that the ultra low sulfur diesel has less lubricative properties than the older diesels and has an effect on the injection pumps. I have heard of people adding 2-stroke oil to their fuel. Is this something to...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Greg_B]

Penetrating Fluids

The cupboard at the shop has a variety of penetrating fluids which I have used over the years. After watching the following video from Project Farm the cupboard has a stock of Liquid Wrench now too. Interesting his testing the witches brew of ATF and Acetone, which I have read about a number of times but never tried.

Project Farm: Penetrating Oils
Any other recommendations?

As always, DYODD.

hth’s

gb

 

[cruiserpilot]

ATF and Acetone seems to be a worldwide redneck trick. It’s the one that everyone everywhere uses.

 

[Enigma]

I "should" be getting my oil analysis back soon from that Co-op deal, be interesting to see what it may show from my lack of additives perhaps? Worse case is it doesn't show but I get 3 pails of diesel oil out of it.

 

[Enigma]

And the results are in........but I'd need to send in some more samples to chart any kind of trend, but "wear and contamination are within acceptable limits" from this one test.

 

[Greg_B]

What brand/weight oil @Enigma?

 

[ForealBoreal]

Been running an oil analysis on my current truck every oil chance since new and it’s recently caught a coolant leak (confirmed it actually). It’s worth it in my eyes for the $20 an oil change to get a blood test for the motor

 

[Enigma]

What brand/weight oil @Enigma?

Uhhh..Valvoline 15/40 I think it was last time.

 

[cruiserpilot]

Are there any dedicated veggie oil converts running renewable oils here?

 

[Enigma]

Are there any dedicated veggie oil converts running renewable oils here?

I had my truck all prepped for it years ago when my injector was redone with all new Viton fuel lines. But I've never ran a full tank of veg. I used to run Bio when it was readily available, until the feds took away that program. Closest veggie fill I've done was when my mom was tossing a bunch of oil vegetable oil and I dumped it all in my tank