Access Denied

[inkpot]

Howdy! Yea, I know, I'm beating a dead horse here. But I hope some of you will decide to get more involved by calling/writing lawmakers, volunteering, talking to your local BLM and FS managers. This is the most recent newsletter from the biggest politcally active 4x4 group in the state. <: http://www.asa4wdc.org/content/wheeldust/current.pdf>. Spend some time searching out the Travel Management Plans for any area you do, or hope to, wheel in. We are loosing ground fast. John

 

[BellyDoc]

Howdy! Yea, I know, I'm beating a dead horse here. But I hope some of you will decide to get more involved by calling/writing lawmakers, volunteering, talking to your local BLM and FS managers. This is the most recent newsletter from the biggest politcally active 4x4 group in the state. <: http://www.asa4wdc.org/content/wheeldust/current.pdf>. Spend some time searching out the Travel Management Plans for any area you do, or hope to, wheel in. We are loosing ground fast. John

I don't think you're beating a dead horse at all. Frankly, I'm hoping that we're going to see this as the birth of a new foal.

I'm hoping the recent loss of access to Martinez canyon will become a new rallying cry. Sometimes a painful thing like that ends up starting enough of a backlash that things turn around.

What it comes down to is funding. With funding comes representation. With representation we become more a part of the process.

It's easy to flail your arms around about how people don't pony up, but I think that's only part of the problem. There's a fairly low confidence level about contribution because there isn't a central source of PR that shows how money going in turns into results coming back out. The results apparently HAVE been achieved multiple times, but the information flow has been poor.

The other part of it is that it takes a lot of time and energy to raise money. The yield is fairly low. It's easy to get frustrated and angry, and then quit. We've got to be better than that and put in the time and the energy and keep it up and NEVER stop. We're doing a poor job of that. Our performance in that regard is episodic and reactive... not sustained and pro-active.

Don't throw in the towel just yet. I think this is do-able.

 

[ChaseTruck]

...
What it comes down to is funding. ...

I thought so, too.

But I'm no longer sure about that.
I believe it comes down to the OHV/4WD community actually wanting to participate. My take is that the majority of people who like to run trails actually don't give a damn.

On any given weekend out in TM or FJ, what percentage of the vehicle owners out there have ever written a letter in response to closure/access issues?

 

[BellyDoc]

That's the "pony up" issue again. It's not worth going there because it just makes you angry and accomplishes nothing.

I want to see something so that every time I order a part from an online vendor, I have to click "yes" or "no" to the option that I round up my total to the next exact dollar, and the extra goes to BRC.

I want to see coin cans at Fly-N-Hi, 4 Wheeler's Supply, Desert Rat, SDHQ and all the other vendors that I've been to for parts and products, and I want the register operators to ask me to put my change in there, or round up to the next dollar on my bank card, and the difference goes in out of the register on behalf of the AZOHVC.

I want the guys selling ATV's and dirt bikes to have a big poster and a donation can in the show room.

I want to see frequent website updates on local access battles and get harassed by email for contributions every couple of months.

I want there to be a local AZ letter generator that gets activated every time there's a local issue requiring attention, while emails go out and links get posted to every willing local forum when it happens.

I'm not just saying this because I think it's going to change people's behavior. It won't. I'm saying this BECAUSE this is how to work with people. They basically mean well, they're for the cause, but they react slowly and they will always have mixed feelings about giving away money even if they're behind the cause 100%.

Fund raising is LOW YIELD. It requires gentle, non-judgmental persistance. You can't just have a fund raiser once and done. There has to be ongoing high profile high energy advertisement. You have to think of this like slapping the Coca-Cola logo all over the place for decades, and not like shaking hands one time and making a binding deal with John Q. Public.

This is just the baseline stuff that we lack and would come with comparatively small amounts of organization.

There are numerous other things we could be doing to get additional activity with a little more work, and that doesn't even touch on the idea of going after deep pocket donors like large corporations with an interest in trail access remaining open.

The trouble with large corporations is that they aren't often interested in having an obvious "stance" on an issue, even if it's to their benefit. They'll only want to have an appearance of a stance if it's good for PR, and siding with special intrest groups is seldom that.


Solidarity would be our friend right now, and calling out the wheelers on the trail because they may or may not have been active participants in the process to date... that's divisive. It would be better to look at them as an untapped resource and figure out how to get them into it.

 

[mountain cruiser]

I agree fully, as I have never written a letter but Do Care about the trails staying open and tend to pick up trash every time I go out. Sad part is that no matter how many clean-ups or closures the influx of trash never ends. No matter how many letters we write, the presence of trash on the trail shows "people" don't care and the actions of the ones who don't care will and do affect those of us that do care.

Most large companies want to make money, bottom line. Once they sell a Bike/ATV or a truck and see the tail lights leave, do they really care about the trails unless they use them? How can you go about educating the masses about respect for the trail? The 4 Wheeling community does quite a bit from what I see, the biggest problem @ Table Mesa and similar areas is the trash. Even on the trails we ran, all 3 rigs I was with were picking up trash every time we spotted each other through an obstacle. Actually that is the same problem I have seen at any spot I ride or wheel, less than half the people who use it actually care about keeping it clean. Hell, we found a Wendy's cup with ice still in it, then caught up to the guy as his buddy was holding a similar cup. I will be out for the next clean up for sure as This thread has made me regret not going last time for the Table Table clean up, no matter how many people we think will go, all of us that use the desert at any point should go.

 

[BellyDoc]

Trail clean ups are important in that they tend to give the involved parties the warm fuzzies, and they do actually clean some junk out of the hills.

However, they don't really do a lot to minimize the problem of people wanting to shut 4 wheeling out of the public lands.

That pressure will continue even if we're doing everything to keep the areas clean.

To be succinct, the only thing that will keep trails open is effective legal representation, and the only thing that will get us legal representation is a steady fund.

By the way, beware of trying to pass blame to another group of outdoor users. Whether it's true or not (and I agree that it's true - urban gun users are a major, probably THE major, source of trash at TM) you shouldn't be too quick to point fingers. This is for good reason.

First off, as far as public opinion goes and BLM management answers to public opinion, there's "US" and "THEM". They, the public who feels righteous and hurt about the environment, and we, the people who actually use the public lands and who in their opinion are a problem requiring control measures.

These people don't divide us into subgroups. There's just US. As far as they're concerned, we're the shooters, we're the trash dumpers, we're the 4 wheelers and the motorcyclists, and the ATV'ers. It's ONE GROUP to them. If you start pointing fingers at any part of this group, you're just fueling their fire about the whole lot.

We have to be better than that.

Whether you like it or not, if you value the access, you'll pick up that trash, you'll smile and you'll say "aren't WE ALL just fantastically responsible outdoorsman?" Period.

To maintain access, though, this show of good will is insufficient. Our access is a right, not a privilege and we don't legally have to earn it. However, it's a right that could easily be revoked or infringed upon. That's the nature of being a minority. We have to fight like tigers to keep up with and counter the maneuvers of the majority. This is freedom with a price.

To maintain our rights, we have to be ready to go to court and challenge the decisions that people make when they think we're not paying attention. This is called LAWSUIT and it costs money.

We just simply have to get creative about increasing the opportunities for people who love this sport to recognize what's at stake, and to become contributors.

We can't be bullish about it. We can't get huffy and righteous. We have to be better than that.

However, we can be persistent. That's totally acceptable.

 

[1leglance]

Jon-BellyDoc
You hit a couple a nails on the head
Look at the tactics the other side is using with sucess...
Lawsuits, it is cheaper to close land in answer to a lawsuit than fight it
video/footage - they are able to use our own stuff against, us...just search youtube for some 4wd destruction
media - we don't do enough to get quality media exposure for the good we do
money - just do a quick search on any of the sites that report on non-profits and see how much money they have vs how much we have
lobbyist - yeah we hate them but they make a difference in Washington

Money is the indication of the level of passion a community has.
I have been ask by various group to use the power of Disabled Explorers on these land issues, up until this point I have worked directly with the land managers. But if I know someone like you is involved I wouldn't have to worry about being "used & abused"....so let me know how you think I could help.

 

[ChaseTruck]

...
Solidarity would be our friend right now, and calling out the wheelers on the trail because they may or may not have been active participants in the process to date... that's divisive. It would be better to look at them as an untapped resource and figure out how to get them into it.

I'm fine with being called divisive.

If people are unwilling to take responsibility - political or financial - for their future access, maybe they don't deserve it anyways.

 

[BellyDoc]

I completely understand your feelings and in large part, share them.

I'm just going with a different plan to see if I can have a different effect.

Wish me luck.

 

[BellyDoc]

Lance -

I'm thinking right now that a centralized plan for getting funding back to the AZOHVC for retaining representation is of primary importance to the cause. I'm looking at options for several methods to create trickles of cash flow. Every little bit helps.

I've got a lot to learn before I go off half cocked, though.

.. yet another reason I probably need to pick your brain.

 

[mountain cruiser]

I like the sound of this and am watching where it will go. I have some extra time and would like to pitch in and learn a little bit, I may be a little under edumacated schooling wise compared to some on the board but this is an area that I am passionate about (land use). I have been riding quads since I was 12 living somewhere near Pensiltuckey dreaming of riding out West, but the fear of losing wheeling/riding areas was looming at an young age when I first heard rumors of the Imperial Sand Dunes closing (maybe around 93 or so) before I had ever been. I just never had an outlet for my energy other than picking up trash when its where i'm playing.

I apologize for profiling a group, we all have been at the end of the pointed finger a time or two. Where there are responsible people there are irresponsible people. No matter what "group" you belong to, and it's easy to judge by looks before actions.

 

[puulboy]

It sounds like a pow pow, is in order to discuss these plans. I am interested in being a part of the solution. Jon, Lance, everyone , lets be the "turning wheel".

 

[mikeob1]

At the federal level, Blue Ribbon is asking for everyone to call.

Call the U.S. Capitol Switchboard 202-224-3121 and tell your Senator:

"Please oppose the Omnibus Public Lands Act. I strongly oppose lumping scores of bills into one "pass all or nothing" package. Each bill must be considered on its own merits, and a lot of these bills are BAD for public recreation, bad for rural economies, and reduce job opportunities!"


The switchboard sends you to McCain's voicemail box which full but you can email to:
senator_mccain@mccain.senate.gov

The link to blue ribbon is below:

BRC National Action Alert - Omnibus Public Lands Bill still may pass! Immediate action requested! - BRC Action Alert

 

[fumann]

We are a collection of communities, 4WD clubs, ATV clubs and an innumerable number of unaffiliated recreational shooters, 4WD owners, ATV and motorcycle riders. The charter of this club is very loose. Its about getting a group of responsible wheelers together and wheeling. Once or twice a year the club participates in/sponsors cleanups. I think this probably pretty typical for most clubs. As Cruiser owners we are a minority in the local 4WD world, but one thing this club is good at is communication. There are more posts for CSC than any other club on MUD! I think we can use that to our advantage.

I understand both sides of this issue. In college I studied Multiple Resource Land Management and I worked Recreation Law Enforcement, Fire Suppression and Fire Lookout for the Forest Service in Oak Creek Canyon and also in Chevelon Ranger District. I'm also a person who enjoys four-wheel driving and the desert. I've been beating around the Arizona back roads in an FJ40 since the early 70's. I understand the pressures that Land Managers have to be the stewards of the resource and to protect it for future generations and also to ensure the viability of native flora and fauna and to protect the geological, archaeological resources and the watershed and to BALANCE that with the recreational demands of that same space.

From their position, the behavior of the collective "Us" that Jon is referring gives them little recourse but to close some of these areas. The balance has been tipped and they close these areas grudgingly. We have to convince them that there are other ways to address the problem. The demand for recreational access will not go away. I think most of us are OK with being inconvenienced by restrictions and permits, but hopefully not Denied Access!

Sure, it's disgusting to pick up trash that someone else has left behind. I've hauled more baby burritos out of Slide Rock than I can count and written hundreds of littering tickets. As a concerned citizen, I've been in on a couple of Table Mesa Cleanups. I remember the irony of picking up shotgun shells at one site, when just across the road I was hearing shooters popping off rounds quicker than I could pick the pile of shells up that I had gathered. The problems at Table Mesa, are control and enforcement. Policing ourselves in that situation would not be a good idea. Nobody, including Sheriffs Deputies wants to walk into a camp where people are likely to be drinking and shooting guns and to ask them to treat the site with respect and to leave it as they found it or cleaner. I've done it many times as an unarmed law enforcement officer for the Forest Service. It can be high risk. At Table Mesa, there is no control of the area and as far as I know, little enforcement. I agree, it is easier to close an area than to put together a plan for managing it. When the demand for an area is high, there needs to be a plan for managing it, e.g. the evolution of Slide Rock to a State Park.

So, if we, as a club of concerned recreational 4 wheelers, are good at communication among ourselves, certainly we have the potential to collaborate with other clubs for our common cause. I don't know if collecting money for lobbying/litigation is the only answer. It is certainly one approach, and I like the ideas for collecting money for the cause. We need to continue to be part of the solution. I applaud John Bricker for his call for action and Jon-BellyDoc for his eloquent response and innovative ideas.

I believe we have to educate the masses and there has to be some consequence to any individual who would taint the land with his debris or leave unnecessary footprints behind. It's about working toward a plan the preserves the natural resource and accommodates the access of recreational users.

 

[Tools R Us]

... Nice rant, hired! ...

Unfortunately, one of the first things that you will learn is: The vast majority of "wheelers" don't care. Example; when a decision is being made, input is requested, notices posted on all forums, the actual number of letters that arrive is embarrassingly small. If the level of "care" is so small that they can't be bothered to type a few words, send an email, what does that say about bigger commitment?

I agree that lobbing is needed, there are groups that have done that for years. But, it is very expensive and IMHO to be effective needs to be done on a national level, in a united front, like Blue Ribbon. It is an external pressure, like me having a meeting with the ranger and giving a piece of my mind, talk is cheap. IMHO working with/supporting one of the existing organisations would be more beneficial than starting new, further fragmenting the effort?

A few of us have been working with local agencies, attempting to identify things that can be effective. They are government employees, like most, trained to do their job within the agency framework. The idea of relying on, working with outside groups, volunteers is foreign to them and at first, met with resistance. This is somewhat changing and I think it can be beneficial on the grassroots level.

Agree that just going out and picking up some cans has little/no effect, that doesn't mean that I'm going to stop doing it. When the agency notices, it is likely attributed to a "green group". If it is done by working with the agency, on projects that are important to them, then they see that groups care and can be counted on to make a difference with EFFORT. Effort trumps talk!

The agencies mostly see users a evils that they are tasked to deal with. If work is done with the agencies, solving problems that they have, we gain internal allies. They may start seeing us as assets, rather than a problem. IMHO, internal allies applying pressure trumps external pressure.

Yes there is one group of 'users". But, the agency people that I deal with are well aware of the sub categories and the efforts or not, that they use to attempt at solving the problems. Shooters are seen as the biggest problem and no effort is being made from the big shooting organisations to mitigate, admit, reduce the problem. My guess is; we will loose the privilege to target shoot on public sooner than later.

Mesa Tonto is starting to come around, have ordered some supplies, like trail and trail head signs, etc, earmarked for volunteer install. They are starting a program of training/certification, so that volunteers are qualified/certified to use government equipment. The upcoming training will include, first aid, CPR, government drivers/equipment operator licenses, radio certification, trail maintenance/repair, etc and general knowledge stuff like; plants, geology, ruin, mine history, etc.

This is very new and there are still some hurtles to overcome. But there are going to be some projects coming up that I believe we need to get behind 100%. There are proposed plans of not only cleanups, but construction projects, civilian patrols, trail assessment/repair, etc.

The agencies communicate, so if we can make a difference with a receptive one, the word will spread. IMHO this can make a difference without a huge expenditure/$$$, only effort.

 

[Tools R Us]

... I'm just going with a different plan to see if I can have a different effect.
...

I would caution against starting a "new movement", especially before talking with the currant groups in place, to determine if they have like goals. The agencies have small staffs dealing with the issues, bombarding them from multiple directions will tend to fracture/dilute/confuse the effort? If you have time, energy to invest, recommend joining one of the currant groups and making that effort stronger.

Inkpot has been working with the BLM, I have been working with the Forest Service. At one time, lots of groups tried to do their own thing, not very successfully. The group the I'm working with (TRAL) is very diverse, started by a motorcycle club, now also has representation from, quad, tour companies, ASA4WDC, etc, working together for a common goal.

Most past efforts were fragmented, haphazard, now attempting to correct that by banding together, having one point of contact with the agencies. As with any government agency the details of how/what/when are huge, this is what is being worked through now and IMHO good people are in place who have the agencies ear. They have been relatively quiet, working on details, but that is close to changing. The goal is to have our ducks in a row and be as effective as possible when it is launched.

What is that old saying; hold your friends close and your enemies closer. One goal is the hug our "enemy" so close that they become our friends, allies. If we work with them, make their job easier, it makes them look good, in turn making us look good.

 

[Tools R Us]

Our efforts to this point have been largely squandered, have been attributed to others or at minimum not credited to wheelers as they should have been. A couple of example cases:

Fossil Creek, a good, fun event. But the internal report basically said; a great job was done by a "green group" and there was a 4x4 club there who caused a nuisance. This was mainly because of who we were working with and their agenda.

The other case is the nails on Four Peaks RD, some of us spent a couple of hours picking up half a trash can full. The report said; the problem was identified, a 4x4 group (CSC) took the initiative and solved the problem in less than a week!

I have zero regrets about Fossil Creek, was fun, I believe we did a good thing, but it did nothing to further our cause and may have actually done damage from the internal point of view. I don't think that every can picked up needs to be credited, will continue to them up at every opportunity whether someone is watching or not. But also believe that we need to be more aware that our big efforts get correctly attributed to the OHV effort, in both internal and external, news, etc. If our efforts are going to be credited to the "green" side or not credited, leaving the reader to assume, I would prefer that they went unreported.

 

[mountain cruiser]

[/QUOTE]

Mesa Tonto is starting to come around, have ordered some supplies, like trail and trail head signs, etc, earmarked for volunteer install. They are starting a program of training/certification, so that volunteers are qualified/certified to use government equipment. The upcoming training will include, first aid, CPR, government drivers/equipment operator licenses, radio certification, trail maintenance/repair, etc and general knowledge stuff like; plants, geology, ruin, mine history, etc.

This is very new and there are still some hurtles to overcome. But there are going to be some projects coming up that I believe we need to get behind 100%. There are proposed plans of not only cleanups, but construction projects, civilian patrols, trail assessment/repair, etc.

The agencies communicate, so if we can make a difference with a receptive one, the word will spread. IMHO this can make a difference without a huge expenditure/$$$, only effort.[/QUOTE]

Tools, When, where, how can I get some training to volunteer? Or even some information PMed to me on who to talk to. I am very interested in volunteering my time with any project they may have, as they control all the places I enjoy. I also would love to gain some experience working with the forest service. I can run a loader, gannon, back hoe, but would need to be certified. Now I may have a reason to get the chainsaw mount for the back of my dirt bike.

Boy, I wish I could be as articulate in words as a few of you guys are, comes with practice and age I guess.

 

[Tools R Us]

...
Tools, When, where, how can I get some training to volunteer? Or even some information PMed to me on who to talk to. I am very interested in volunteering my time with any project they may have, as they control all the places I enjoy. I also would love to gain some experience working with the forest service. I can run a loader, gannon, back hoe, but would need to be certified. Now I may have a reason to get the chainsaw mount for the back of my dirt bike.
...

The "call to action" will be soon. There will be more training opportunities coming after the first of the year. I will see which are open to all and will post them. On some of the first ones they are using those who have been involved, as lab rats, to tune the process before opening it up. The first one that is required is volunteer orientation and sign the volunteer contract/agreement, this is good for the calender year, so would be pointless to do this month, would only be good for a couple of weeks. This is one of the details that is being worked, making it longer, easier renewed, etc.

Once you are a "legit" volunteer, you are basically an unpaid employee, so they will spend time/$ on you (training). It gives some benefits, like med coverage if you are injured on the "job".

Heavy equipment and chainsaw are not part of the program as of now. The liability and training are high, so any chainsaw work will be done outside of official volunteer work. Dirt bike and quad (separate training needed) are on the table, a couple of sessions have happened and expect more in the spring. Government drivers licence, first aid/CPR, trail evaluation/repair, sign placement/install, leadership/conflict management, etc, are being developed and most will be recognized by other agencies.

 

[azTony]

Sounds interesting