ABS problem after Birfield + bearing repack

[concretejungle]

Carolina Cruiser, shoot me a PM or perhaps WolfpackTLC could help to since he is in your neighborhood. Either way, we are both in NC and have done the birf on our 80s (i hope i'm not putting words in wolfpack's mouth here). I can lend you a hand if you need.

Later,
Alex

 

[carolina_cruiser]

Thanks for the offer. I'll PM you guys if I need help.

Also, can someone tell me the pupose of the port on the housing circled in red on the photo below (partial image borrowed from How-To on http://george4wd.taskled.com/)

 

[montocr]

abs sensor

Make sure that the sensors are clean on the mating surfaces. If there is dirt between the sensor and knuckle it will be spaced out too far.

 

[concretejungle]

Make sure that the sensors are clean on the mating surfaces. If there is dirt between the sensor and knuckle it will be spaced out too far.

That's not the abs sensor! That's the fill bolt, for lack of better words. You can take the bolt out and add a little grease to the knuckle as felt needed, or look in and inspect to see if you are brewing birf soup.

 

[carolina_cruiser]

That makes sense. I suppose with a flexible extension to a grease gun one could get grease to most places through that port. Thanks.

 

[concretejungle]

That makes sense. I suppose with a flexible extension to a grease gun one could get grease to most places through that port. Thanks.

I checked mine a day after the birf job to be sure i had put addequate amounts of grease on the birf. Just added a couple of squirts and inspect every oil change.

 

[WolfpackTLC]

Woo hoo! 80's of NC unite! Ha ha ha....

I'm in the Raleigh/Cary area my man....

If you need ANY help at all with birf/front axle/whatever, feel free to drop me an email @

joccena1@nc.rr.com or PM me on the Mud board....

I'm catching up to Christo for the record of most 80 series- birf's broken... so I've done the axle rebuild thing plenty of times... I've got my birf changes down to under 30 mins per side.... ha ha ha...

Welcome aboard!


WolfpackTLC

 

[TLCgrappler]

That makes sense. I suppose with a flexible extension to a grease gun one could get grease to most places through that port. Thanks

Actually, it appears that way until you take it apart yourself and get to know it up close and personal. After that, you wonder why the fill plug is there at all, since the only place the grease will get to is the outside of the birfield bell, not the inside where all of the friction and force is.

Based on logic, but not experience, I would caution anyone against overfilling the knuckle cavity through that hole. I think it will simply force grease through the axle seal into the differential works. Its possible that some of it would help keep the stub axle lubed where it passes through the spindle, but it doesnt seem that that area is all that prone to drying out anyway.

Sorry about your experience with the differential fluid.

BTW, I looked up some moly lube data and references and it appears that the reason it is called for in the birfs is that molybdenum disulfide grease is used in applications where there may be long intervals between service, because the moly leaves a persistent coating that reduces friction even after the grease has lost its properties and or dissipated. At least thats what I gather from my reading.

 

[concretejungle]

I agree with TLCgrappler about over filling. Do not do that. What i was suggesting is to use it as a check. After you have put everything back together and driven it for a day or two, look in there and make sure you can see grease. If not, start squirting some in there. However, i don't see how the grease would not work it's way into the bell if the knuckle is relatively full of grease. Think of all the movement in there, that grease is getting stirred around and moved like crazy.

 

[carolina_cruiser]

UPDATE2:

The mechanic called me first thing in the morning at work and apologized and said that the job had in fact been done wrong that he would completely disassemble the front axle assembly, clean it out thoroughly, and re-do the job correctly at no cost to me. (I'm sure he was also concerned about the potential liability of a botched repair effecting the brakes, although he didn't mention that.) He said that his contact at the Toyota dealer had told him to use 90W in the diffs and knuckle and that his assistant did the actual work.

I figured I'd give him a chance to make things right and dropped it off yesterday morning. I picked it up yesterday evening and everything looks fine - no more ABS issues, no leakage from the knuckles, and the mess from the leaking diff oil all cleaned up.

I'll plan to take a look in there soon to make sure everything was done properly this time. But based on the description of what he did second-time-around and the external appearance I think there is a good chance the job was done right this time.

The original ABS issues may be related to the fact that, being submerged in diff oil, the magnet sensors picked up any metal floating around in the knuckle.

Anyway, there is still a whining on acceleration @> 40 mph which I had hoped the birfield repack would eliminate. I have two new tires on order to match the rears (new Yokohama Golandar HTS's - not the best but will be ok for now due to $$$ considerations) and I'll get an alignment done when they arrive (hopefully this weekend). Once all of that is done, I'll replace the transfer case oil and rear diff oil with Mobil 1 and see about any noises once all that is done. Hopefully, it's just tire noise, but doubtful since it's only under acceleration.

Anyway, thanks everyone for all the help in getting this figured out.

 

[Rookie2]

I would recommend spending the $75 or so and getting the FSM even if you're going have the work done by someone else (particularly a non-certified Toyota mechanic). I would think nobody would complain of you giving them a photo copy of the procedure for review or reference. At the end of the day, you could sale it for close to that, so you're not out any significant cash. I'd dare to say you've dealt with $75 worth of hassle in this instance alone. If you do start to do your own maintenance, it will pay for itself many times over.

My 0.02. Good to hear your mechanic did the right thing (hopefully ).


Rookie2

 

[Scamper]

I'm glad to hear your mechanic corrected his mistakes--regardless of his reasons. I take back my earlier comments about him

Now, get yourself a FSM from Dan and start to do this stuff yourself. You'll be much happier about it.

 

[carolina_cruiser]

The front end seemed to be getting noisy, so I checked the front diff yesterday. Birf soup for you!!

It's only been a few hundred miles since the second go round of the front axle service. Being better equipped and having a few 1 and 2 banana jobs under my belt I plan to tackle doing this myself.

Should I be looking for any causes other than over-packing of the knuckles or damage to the inner axle seals? My guess is that the cause is most likely sloppy workmanship in the first two rebuilds.

 

[concretejungle]

Carolina, i think the most important thing to keep from getting birf soup is to ensure the inner oil seals are properly seated and not beat to s*** when you put them in. Also, be very careful when reassembling so that when you stick the axle back in it doesn't bugger up the seal.

 

[landtank]

Also make sure the inner seal is in the correct orientation.

 

[carolina_cruiser]

OK, it sounds like I have a pretty good idea what I'm looking for. I'm going to get started tonight, although I'm not sure how far I'll get today. Hopefully I can get the whole task completed this week.

 

[carolina_cruiser]

Here's the next chapter in the saga of stupid mechanic:

I got both sides fully disassembled and partially reassembled (waiting to pick up hub gaskets tomorrow). The driver side birf looked fine, other than that the mechanic had used some sort of silicone gasket goo which was messy to deal with. The inner oil seal was intact and there was no sign of oil in the knuckle. The wrong kind of grease had clearly been used so I cleaned it out and replaced the inner oil seal for good measure.

The passenger side wasn't too bad either. I spent about 20 min trying to remove a stubborn conical washer - only to realize that the washer was missing and the hole filled with silicone gasket maker. Once in the knuckle, it was clear that it had been packed 100+% full of a different kind of wrong grease (clearish, light brown - looks like wheel bearing grease). Once the axle was out, it was clear that the knuckle had been overfilled forcing a copious amount of grease through the inner axle seal into the axle shaft to contaminate the grease. I cleaned that knuckle out as well and will replace the inner oil seal for good measure.

It frustrates me that I paid someone nearly $600 labor to bungle this job so badly. Thanks to everybody here for guiding me throught the process of getting it done right.

Now I'm wondering how to get the front diff cleaned out. It seems that tilting the vehicle and draining the soup from the axle shafts and diff drain will only go so far. I suppose I'll just have to do the best I can then add cheapo 80W90; drive ~100 mi; drain; repeat until the oil stays clear. Maybe adding Seafoam or similar might help? Any suggestions?

 

[Beowulf]

Now I'm wondering how to get the front diff cleaned out. It seems that tilting the vehicle and draining the soup from the axle shafts and diff drain will only go so far. I suppose I'll just have to do the best I can then add cheapo 80W90; drive ~100 mi; drain; repeat until the oil stays clear. Maybe adding Seafoam or similar might help? Any suggestions?

I would not add Seafoam. Just do the frequent drain fills. Some grease mixed in with the diff oil is not a big deal. It's all lubrication as long as the diff doesn't get FULL of nothing but grease; then you have a big problem.

-B-

 

[Big_Moose]

CCruiser

Like -B- mentions, please don't use the seafoam in the diff. You could remove the lowest front differential stud to remove some more soup, but, the easiest method is numerous flushes with standard gear oil.

Regarding the inner axle / oil seal - make sure you lubricate the seal with a thin film of grease, and try not to rest / drag the axle on the seal during assembly, which can be another receipe for diff soup.

Joe

 

[carolina_cruiser]

Regarding the inner axle / oil seal - make sure you lubricate the seal with a thin film of grease, and try not to rest / drag the axle on the seal during assembly, which can be another receipe for diff soup.

Thanks Big Moose and Beowulf for the tadvice regarding avoiding seafoam.

Regarding resting the axle on the seal during assembly, I was careful about that during insertion but there came a point where it seemed unavoidable. Once the axle is nearly fully inserted, the inner end seemed to need to pivot up slightly in order to enter the splines at the diff. It seemed the only to achieve this was to rest the axle shaft on a pivot point (possibly the oil seal, possibly the other raised point slightly behind it) and press down on the outer axle in order to pivot the inner axle up to enter the splines.

Is there a better / safer way to do this? I too was concerned about possible damage to the seal from this so I pulled the axle back out to check the seal and it was undamaged.