A442 Won't Drop Into 2nd When Manually Shifting Into '2'

[Leitrum3]

Hey folks,

I had this question posted as part of an ongoing troubleshoot from a road trip but I never figured out what the problem or solution was. I have a new rebuilt hydraulic a442 from Wholesale Automatics in Oz with the extreme vb and heavy duty tc. It now has about 7k miles on it since install into my 96 FZJ80 (also converted to 1HZ so all engine/tranny wiring was a professional conversion).

In a few words, the issue is this:
Manually shifting to '2' doesn't do anything and I end uphill climbing in 3rd. Or, I floor it to get it to downshift and accelerate up the hill (not really what I want to be doing). With a heavy, underpowered rig this is a big issue. Per the service manual for Chassis and Body HZJ80's, page AT-23, mine fails the 2 Range Test, but it doesn't say what to do if this happens!

Another thing to consider was driving for a while on low fluid unbeknownst to me. The tranny sat dry for years and when it was first filled to full, it was actually still low (probably due to some air pockets or something...). I added 2 additional quarts and to this day, a couple months later, the fluid still looks and smells perfect and the level is dead on.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated! I'd like to get the tranny running right so when I start my rebuild this spring I know everything will be working right.

Leit

 

[Duiser Offroad]

I'd call wholesale automatics. Those guys are transmission guru's. Besides, you got the transmission from them.

Hey folks,

I had this question posted as part of an ongoing troubleshoot from a road trip but I never figured out what the problem or solution was. I have a new rebuilt hydraulic a442 from Wholesale Automatics in Oz with the extreme vb and heavy duty tc. It now has about 7k miles on it since install into my 96 FZJ80 (also converted to 1HZ so all engine/tranny wiring was a professional conversion).

In a few words, the issue is this:
Manually shifting to '2' doesn't do anything and I end uphill climbing in 3rd. Or, I floor it to get it to downshift and accelerate up the hill (not really what I want to be doing). With a heavy, underpowered rig this is a big issue. Per the service manual for Chassis and Body HZJ80's, page AT-23, mine fails the 2 Range Test, but it doesn't say what to do if this happens!

Another thing to consider was driving for a while on low fluid unbeknownst to me. The tranny sat dry for years and when it was first filled to full, it was actually still low (probably due to some air pockets or something...). I added 2 additional quarts and to this day, a couple months later, the fluid still looks and smells perfect and the level is dead on.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated! I'd like to get the tranny running right so when I start my rebuild this spring I know everything will be working right.

Leit

 

[Leitrum3]

After a number of conversations with Rodney and his crew in Australia (thank god for Skype!), we tried a couple of different things. The first thing was to see if maybe the shifter was indexed wrong, which would be apparent if I could "find" 2nd between the normal spots the shifter drops into. No dice. I will say this test method sucks when you're going 25 and trying to get into 2 and you get to close to 'L' and suddenly drop into 1st...

The second test they advised was a little hair raising, but very telling. The idea was to bypass all the shifter linkages and just feel the transmission itself as it shifted. For this, I had to remove the shifter and actually hold the shifter rod (no idea of the name) while cruising down the road at 20-35mph (see pic). It gets a little hot, so do this part quick if you ever need to do this!

The result for all of this was that when cold, I could get the tranny to stay in 2 sometimes, but it wouldn't down shift back to 2 if I let it go to 3. It also wouldn't start in 2. The guys at Wholesale decided that I must have a sticky valve body, so I should just send the vb back to them for repairs. While its great that they're offering to repair it for me, I have to think that if I could do this or find someone to take a look at it, it would probably cost the same as shipping- assuming I pull the valve body myself. Anyone have thoughts on this before I dig into it? I'll probably time this work with the engine rebuild no matter what since I'll be immobile anyway.

 

[Leitrum3]

This issue still has me flummoxed as autos are not my thing. Anyone have any other thoughts? I'm logically trying to avoid paying $200 each way to ship the vb back to Australia to have it looked over if there's a possibility that's not even the issue. At the same time, I'm ready to do whatever it takes as this is now keeping me from taking my rig on trips since any mountain passes are extremely difficult between my lack of power and not holding 2nd...

 

[BlackLS1]

This issue still has me flummoxed as autos are not my thing. Anyone have any other thoughts? I'm logically trying to avoid paying $200 each way to ship the vb back to Australia to have it looked over if there's a possibility that's not even the issue. At the same time, I'm ready to do whatever it takes as this is now keeping me from taking my rig on trips since any mountain passes are extremely difficult between my lack of power and not holding 2nd...

have you tried removing the valve body?

 

[CJF]

The position you're in sucks, but I'd just send Rodney the valve body.

I remember some pic's on his website, the VB is a surprisingly complex little bugger.

 

[Sc0-]

At least you don't have to send the entire transmission out...

An option would be for them to send you a replacement VB first to minimize the downtime?

 

[CJF]

An option would be for them to send you a replacement VB first to minimize the downtime?

I was gonna say that...

Don't know if they'd go for it, but it's worth asking.

 

[Leitrum3]

have you tried removing the valve body?

No, I've been putting off doing anything to it until I'm sure pulling it is the last resort.

At least you don't have to send the entire transmission out...

An option would be for them to send you a replacement VB first to minimize the downtime?

The day I decide to pull it, will be the day that I have everything scraped together to start the engine rebuild so downtime won't be an issue. I think it's the fact that this tranny has maybe 10k miles on it and is having this kind of issue that makes me feel like there must be something simpler to be done than pulling the VB...Anyone think a fluid swap (and checking for any residue etc) would help?

 

[CJF]

Anyone think a fluid swap (and checking for any residue etc) would help?

Wait: You haven't even pulled the pan to do a partial fluid change and/or inspect the filter?

For some reason I assumed you'd already gone through all that. So yeah, definitely do it.

 

[Leitrum3]

Finally completed step one tonight, it was madness. Messy, messy madness. While I've seen the pictures and thoroughly read about the process of removing the VB, nothing quite prepares you. I'm hoping now that someone more knowledgeable of these things can help decipher the results.

After removing the drain plug and letting it drain for a while, I dropped the pan and what I found was perhaps not the most awesome thing I could have:





Yes, that's a bolt in the bottom of the pan, stuck to a magnet. There's so many damn bolts on the VB, it took me a few minutes of laying on my back under the truck alternately looking at the FSM and up at the VB to sort out where this came from. It turned out to be from the corner of the filter, not super critical I wouldn't think. While never a good thing to have something like this rolling around, I'm more concerned with why this happened in the first place.

A couple hours of loosening bolts and letting more fluid drain, I finally got the VB out. I think what I might do is talk with a transmission shop to see how much it would be to have them take a look at this thing. Honestly, I think it would be cheaper than mailing it back to Wholesale...




Now to the troublesome part. Ideally, we wouldn't ever find flecks or shavings other than on the magnets, but is there any amount of this that's okay? The streaks are what I pulled off the magnets.



More of what I found. There were definitely some flecks floating around in the very bottom of my catch basin but nothing too large and pretty sparse I suppose. What you can see, though, is that some of this is bronze from bushing wear... The largest steel piece I found can be seen on my finger.







Also, I should state that the fluid smelled exactly like the stuff in the jugs I bought at the store. So, any thoughts on this? I can't fathom this isn't normal with how newly rebuilt this thing is, but it has given me trouble from day one so...

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Contact wholesale with your findings. See what thy want to do about it. I would not save money to have a local shop look at the VB that may have never seen a toyota one let alone a modded one. It very well could void any warranty on it and the transmission.

 

[Leitrum3]

First off, let me just say the folks at Wholesale Automatics are fantastic. I spoke with Rodney and Trevor and did a little troubleshooting. They even went so far as to stay on the phone and walk me through a few things I could check myself before doing anything more drastic. But, as nothing we did revealed anything obvious, it'll be going back to them for a warranty rebuild. Amusingly, having now poked inside of the VB in detail, I really don't think I understand the specific workings of this transmission any better than I did before...

As for the flecks and fluid I found, their opinion is that this is about what one should expect after 20,000km and the fluid looked perfect. So, I guess that's that for a while. Might as well start the rebuild at this point I suppose.