A343F fluid swap - with chunks.

[jkeithw]

I am in the process of doing a trans flush on Julia's '95, and I've found two chunks of aluminum as I was draining the pan, as shown. (I think I might've missed one that went into the bucket, so I'll be straining it into another container to verify.)

I know exactly ZERO about automatic transmissions, so I'd appreciate you guys weighing in on what those might be.

This was a replacement transmission per the previous owner, and the pan has been off before this (sealed with RTV).

It has been driving and shifting fine, but we had an issue where it puking fluid out of the dipstick tube on the interstate - which I was thinking was either an overfilling issue on y part (going to compare the dipstick with the one from my '96 to rule that out) or a clogged vent on top of the box (likely, due to how grungy everything is up there). Now I'm concerned we might have an internal issue.

Or, residual from some previous repair?

Thoughts and suggestions? I'm going to continue to prep the filter & pan for installation, but will pause at that point until I have a better understanding of the situation.

Thanks, guys (I realize it's a holiday and all).

 

[Malleus]

Photos? If it's puking fluid, it's not overfilled, the breather's clogged. It's right on top of the case, where you can't get at it when it's installed. There's a 8(ish)–mm black rubber vent line connected to the breather fitting, which is a white(ish) plastic elbow. It' snot a breather like the axles have, just a vent.

If it's not making noise, it's probably OK. I'd make sure to flush the entire system, using the pump, through the cooler lines.

There's a write up I did on this many moons ago, but essentially you
1» pull the rubber return line, near the radiator, from the hardline, an run it into a graduated (read: marked with a sharpie) gallon container.
2» Drain the pan, replace it, and fill it back with new fluid, through the fill tube.
3» Then run the engine and move through the gears slowly, while the pump moves the fluid into the container.

You replace the fluid using a funnel, through the fill tube as it comes out – that's why it needs to be graduated. You pour fluid in at the rate it's pumped out. Super simple; takes about 30 minutes, but you will need 12 quarts of ATF; you'll have about 1/2 a quart left over.

I use a Windex gallon refill, becasue it's heavy gauge plastic and stands up well on its own, but you can use anything. Pour in a quart of water at a time, marking thelevel on the outside of the container as you fill it. Dump the water when it's at 1–gallon and you're ready to go. Save the used ATF; it's great for general cleaning and rustproofing metal.

 

[jkeithw]

Photos?

Sorry, I was in the process of adding them when you posted.

 

[jkeithw]

Photos? If it's puking fluid, it's not overfilled, the breather's clogged. It's right on top of the case, where you can't get at it when it's installed. There's a 8(ish)–mm black rubber vent line connected to the breather fitting, which is a white(ish) plastic elbow. It' snot a breather like the axles have, just a vent.

If it's not making noise, it's probably OK. I'd make sure to flush the entire system, using the pump, through the cooler lines.

There's a write up I did on this many moons ago, but essentially you
1» pull the rubber return line, near the radiator, from the hardline, an run it into a graduated (read: marked with a sharpie) gallon container.
2» Drain the pan, replace it, and fill it back with new fluid, through the fill tube.
3» Then run the engine and move through the gears slowly, while the pump moves the fluid into the container.

You replace the fluid using a funnel, through the fill tube as it comes out – that's why it needs to be graduated. You pour fluid in at the rate it's pumped out. Super simple; takes about 30 minutes, but you will need 12 quarts of ATF; you'll have about 1/2 a quart left over.

I use a Windex gallon refill, becasue it's heavy gauge plastic and stands up well on its own, but you can use anything. Pour in a quart of water at a time, marking thelevel on the outside of the container as you fill it. Dump the water when it's at 1–gallon and you're ready to go. Save the used ATF; it's great for general cleaning and rustproofing metal.

Yes, thanks - this is the procedure I was intending to follow (might've been your write-up, actually). Good to know I was on the right track about the vent!

 

[Malleus]

Hmmm. That's hard to identify, but if it's steel and not aluminum, it's not a part of the transmission. There aren't any steel parts like that in there, although there are some in the valve body. But, if it was from the valve body, you'd have shifting problems.

My initial thoughts ran to the O/D clutch body, but if it was that, you'd know it.

FWIW, the pan looks OK.

I'm around and free, give me a call if you want a second set of eyes. Worst case, if you decide to pull it, I can tear it down and inspect it for you, and rebuild it if necessary.

 

[jkeithw]

Hmmm. That's hard to identify, but if it's steel and not aluminum, it's not a part of the transmission.

It's aluminum. (or something non-ferrous)

They sort of look like something thin that's been wadded up; I can't tell if those are machined ridges...

I'm thinking I'm going to proceed, since I have everything in process and the time to do it today - unless I find several more chunks in the drained oil.

Incidentally, I got a little over 5 quarts from the pan & filter, which is more than I expected.

 

[jkeithw]

I'm around and free, give me a call if you want a second set of eyes. Worst case, if you decide to pull it, I can tear it down and inspect it for you, and rebuild it if necessary.

Hey, thanks! - I appreciate that. Let me see how it goes before I call in a lifeline.

 

[baldilocks]

The transmission oil pan was sealed with FIPG (form in place gasket) from the factory so don’t bother trying to by a gasket and don’t use permatex, the red/orange FIPG is superior. You can use the red or the black but the red is normally used on gear boxes, the black on the engine. You can order on line or by at the local dealership.

 

[jkeithw]

The transmission oil pan was sealed with FIPG (form in place gasket) from the factory so don’t bother trying to by a gasket and don’t use permatex, the red/orange FIPG is superior. You can use the red or the black but the red is normally used on gear boxes, the black on the engine. You can order on line or by at the local dealership.
View attachment 4058700

I didn't realize there was a red (I have black) - I might be mistaken about that being RTV, then.

Also, just noticed that our 1995 and 1996 transmission dipsticks are slightly different - the warm/hot marks are the same, but the cold range is a lot tighter and a bit lower on the stick on the '96. Not really relevant, but interesting.

 

[Malleus]

And you haven't noticed any grinding or slipping under load at slow speeds?

 

[Malleus]

FWIW, the South American 80s got a gasket; we got FIPG. Just a manufacturing plant operations difference, not really a critical feature. Accountants like the gasket, because it gives them a more consistent cost factor; you can't really expect goop from a tube to be very consistent, even when it's metered from a pump, like the assembly lines use. The line supervisors prefer the FIPG becuase they have fewer returns. That was my experience building axles, anyway.

I think the Japanese opted for FIPG because it creates a better (more reliable, anyway) seal on a flimsy lip, like that pan has.

 

[jkeithw]

And you haven't noticed any grinding or slipping under load at slow speeds?

Not that I recall, no.

To clarify, we first had this issue traveling cross country in 2018 - we lost an injector and developed a slip on the same evening, during a terrible storm, after I'd been pushing it 80-90mph with a tent on the roof all day. ATF all over the back of the truck. I added a bunch and got it driving/shifting again, but we towed it back due to the injector miss (a fault in the engine harness).

It's been in the shop for deferred maintenance since then, but we drove it to Expo and back this year as a glorified test drive. The transmission continued to push out fluid (and I added accordingly), but drove/shifted properly for the entire trip. So mechanically, it performed as expected - so I'm surprised to find these chunks, honestly.

So, no, not anything that we've noticed.

 

[Malleus]

Well, that's something.

Unfortunately, unlike an engine, a transmission really doesn't have any way to tell you it's not well. They can be instrumented, but they aren't.

Usually, the only way you know that you have a problem is failing performance. The only real check you can make, without a teardown, is to verify the action of the individual clutch packs. When those wear too much, you see it in the pan as grit. What you have isn't that.

That FOD wouldn't have likely gotten in there on its own. Not to be a Debbie downer, but, I'd keep an eye on it and budget for a rebuild. At this point, even a "working" or "running" transmissions need new clutches, at a minimum, and really needs an entire rebuild kit (clutches and seals).

You can get a used (good enough) transmission for $200 to $300, and a rebuild kit for half that. After that, it's just labor. Three (at most) days and you'll be back in business, for another 30 years.

 

[jkeithw]

Not to be a Debbie downer, but, I'd keep an eye on it and budget for a rebuild. At this point, even a "working" or "running" transmissions need new clutches, at a minimum, and really needs an entire rebuild kit (clutches and seals).

You can get a used (good enough) transmission for $200 to $300, and a rebuild kit for half that. After that, it's just labor. Three (at most) days and you'll be back in business, for another 30 years.

Well, my wife would marry me all over again if I manual-swap this for her, so if it isn't miraculously healed after this, then I'll drop it and get it redone for someone else that may need it in the future, and get her a third pedal. (Wish this conversation had happened pre-tariffs, though.)

I do still have the '96 on my trailer if I have to swap out a box in the interim (I hope not)...

BTW, I appreciate all the info and guidance today. Thank you.