A/C crankshaft pulley - broken off - Freewheeling on shaft! HELP
- Thread starter srplus
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srplus
Walked with the Dinosaurs
- Thread starter
- #62
Second attempt with grinding what was left of the 'nut' and the impact socket and then gorilla welding and waiting. Bing it broke loose! we got the nut off and ripped the pulley apart trying to pull it off... a little massaging with the fire wrench and we got the front part of the pulleys off and pulled the remaining off with the puller...
BTW... what ever kind of nut was on there was not the OEM nut and it did not have a threaded coupling that fit down inside the pulleys. I will take pics when I have the camera here and post the damage up.
I am happier now... gotta put everything back together now since the threads were not messed up on the crankshaft.
BTW... what ever kind of nut was on there was not the OEM nut and it did not have a threaded coupling that fit down inside the pulleys. I will take pics when I have the camera here and post the damage up.
I am happier now... gotta put everything back together now since the threads were not messed up on the crankshaft.
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Steve, what about the crank snout, where the key is located? Is that wallered off? (tech terms)
srplus
Walked with the Dinosaurs
- Thread starter
- #64
No. Everything looks fine except that maybe the shaft behind the threads might have gotten a scratch in it or two when we had to get the pulley off. I was thinking about maybe lightly sanding it with some emery cloth and then lightly oiling it before putting the replacement pulley on. The old pulley actually broke when we tried to pull it off so that we had to cut the pulley part that remained off of the part that went over the shaft. The only tool that would work for this was the fire wrench. I can't believe that Toyota engineers actually thought that a three piece unit was the right way to go here... It is almost like they had a lot of old pulleys laying around and when they figured to add the air conditioning they just figured that since the front two pulleys were so weakly attached to what went over the shaft, why not just rivet the harmonic balancer with the A/C pulley on the original. I am not happy with the way that this was/is done.
We were careful only to cut the face of the pulleys off and left the remainder on the shaft and then used the puller to slowly pull it off. The keyway (and the key) are still there and look in excellent condition. It was getting too dark to see what I was doing so I came home. I am pretty sure the new pulley will go right down on the shaft without a problem and will check all this out a little further tomorrow morning.
That was such an ordeal since the welder was almost to the point where he wanted to just use the torch to try to cut the pulley and into the nut... then take a chisel and try to break the remaining pulley and nut. I encouraged him to make one more try and we got it. I threaded the old nut (AND it WAS NOT OEM!!! since the bushing part did not go down inside of the pulleys) all the way on and off several times and have gotten the new OEM nut to go about 2/3 of the way down on to the threads with just hand pressure. The old 'nut and socket' will go down all the way until it is fully seated. Since it did not have the threaded bushing extension of the OEM nut I can't for the life of me figure out how they got the pulley to seat on the shaft. The stepped nature of the inside of the pulley where it slides over the shaft is to insure that the nut pushes the pulley on and aligns it properly.
I think the problem was that the bushing part did not exist on what PO used to bolt the pulleys on and they did not line up properly which compounded the problem with the 'trail-fix' welded pulley that they put on there. Looking at the photos I took of what was left of the original nut, I have no idea what it was or how they got it on. Seriously, I could find no evidence at all of any hex part on it that could have been used to tighten it down. It was smooth and there was not even a bur that would catch a rag (it was that smooth on the face).
thanx for all your help!
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srplus
Walked with the Dinosaurs
- Thread starter
- #65
Seriously, I was really worried when the first attempt by the welder was a total failure. The socket he welded on popped right off when we applied the breaker bar to it. I was not too hopeful that his second attempt would be any better. He ground down around the socket and also ground down on what was left of the old 'nut' and then re-welded it. We waited quite a while for it to cool off since he said that it was not his weld that failed but the face of the old nut actually came off and part of it was attached to the socket.
We followed the advice about high gear and high 4WD and locked up the brakes with the combination of about a 3' breaker bar it released and we backed it off with a regular socket. I would strongly recommend this method with the socket welded to the nut again. However, I would recommend that the welder grind a little more off the outside shoulder of the socket (impact) before attempting the first weld. The welding unit that he brought down was certainly not a buzz box or a wire feed... it filled up most of the back of a one ton truck.
We followed the advice about high gear and high 4WD and locked up the brakes with the combination of about a 3' breaker bar it released and we backed it off with a regular socket. I would strongly recommend this method with the socket welded to the nut again. However, I would recommend that the welder grind a little more off the outside shoulder of the socket (impact) before attempting the first weld. The welding unit that he brought down was certainly not a buzz box or a wire feed... it filled up most of the back of a one ton truck.
Good news, Steven. This may have been said but I would go ahead and replace the crank seal and timing cover gasket at this point since it is apart and had all the heat put to it. Is there a speedi sleeve for the crank pully? May want to add one of those too if it is availble. 
srplus
Walked with the Dinosaurs
- Thread starter
- #67
Now that I have everything off the shaft I an not having success putting the new pulley on. I think maybe the shaft got galled a little. Basically, I can not get the key out of the shaft. I have tried all I can think of and I want to remove the key to lightly dress the shaft with some fine emery cloth.
I thought that I ought to at least slide the new pulley on far enough to torque it down with the nut but I can not get the pulley on far enough to get the nut to reach the threads on the shaft.
Additional ideas? Any would be most welcome.
I thought that I ought to at least slide the new pulley on far enough to torque it down with the nut but I can not get the pulley on far enough to get the nut to reach the threads on the shaft.
Additional ideas? Any would be most welcome.
srplus
Walked with the Dinosaurs
- Thread starter
- #68
It's dark out but we successfully seated the pulley and are ready to torque down the nut...
will update with pics later but I am very happy about this.
The pulley did not want to go on until we figured a way to drive it directly through the hole in the front of the sheet metal...
It is kind of a long story so I am sure you will all want the full details.
Now all I need to do is find my 1/2" torque wrench or borrow one and the appropriate size socket...
Does anyone have any preferences for the old style nut without the Flange Collar cast into it vs. the new style with the flange...
It looks to me that the older design is more solid and less subject to fail... If I use the older style nut should I use a washer?
What Say You?
New Style Nut
Old Style Nut
will update with pics later but I am very happy about this.
The pulley did not want to go on until we figured a way to drive it directly through the hole in the front of the sheet metal...
It is kind of a long story so I am sure you will all want the full details.
Now all I need to do is find my 1/2" torque wrench or borrow one and the appropriate size socket...
Does anyone have any preferences for the old style nut without the Flange Collar cast into it vs. the new style with the flange...
It looks to me that the older design is more solid and less subject to fail... If I use the older style nut should I use a washer?
What Say You?
New Style Nut
Old Style Nut
According to the book, the nut used for the 2F in your application is the 90179-22009 ('85.04-'87.08) The diagram does not differentiate at all:
I do not know if there is any physical difference between the cranks. The diagram does not show a washer at all for the early years ('80.08 - '85.04 #90179-22004). I also noted that in the photo you can see where the flats were in contact with the pulley.
I did note that the pulley is the same throughout the years '80 - '87 the difference is how many belts you are running.
I think, if I was going to use the early pulley that came from Val, I would also use the nut he sent.
My $.02.
Glad you finally have had success!
I do not know if there is any physical difference between the cranks. The diagram does not show a washer at all for the early years ('80.08 - '85.04 #90179-22004). I also noted that in the photo you can see where the flats were in contact with the pulley.
I did note that the pulley is the same throughout the years '80 - '87 the difference is how many belts you are running.
I think, if I was going to use the early pulley that came from Val, I would also use the nut he sent.
My $.02.
Glad you finally have had success!
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On a good crank, the pulley has to be beat on there, then drawn down the last bit w/ the nut.
46mm
Don't use a washer, that's just one more failure point. Torque it on there to the factory spec, then tork it some more.
srplus
Walked with the Dinosaurs
- Thread starter
- #71
The beating it on was not an issue since when I first tried to seat it I attempted to beat it on with what was left of the old pulley and a 24 oz. framing hammer. It barely started it and I could not remember the directions I had read several times and thought that the nut would pull it down. I wanted to be sure that it was going on 100% straight and did not want to beat the weak part of the pulley with a hammer or my improvised tool. I had thought that the nut would pull it the rest of the way in but it was not on far enough for the nut to get started on the threads.
I thought of what my grandfather used to say: "When in doubt, read the directions. Much better to read them before you skrew something up than after." I went back and read the service manual and of course they had a beautiful picture of them beating it on with a special tool. And, of course the engine was not behind the sheet metal or the frame and it was easy for them to get to everything including room to swing a hammer.
We determined that the hole in the front sheet metal (that I had heard was there for hand cranking the engine) aligns perfectly with the center of the pulley. Mine is now a bit 'out of sorts' because the front hole thru the sheet metal is larger than the rear one through the inside layer of sheet metal. I inserted a breaker bar with a huge socket on it (since I did not have the specialized tool) through the hole... The socket end of the breaker bar could be inserted through the front hole in the sheet metal but was a little too large for the rear hole. So, I inserted it from the rear leaving the socket end toward the pulley...
I put the pulley on the shaft and put the big socket on the breaker bar... Took a four pound baby sledge and persuaded it to slide on. Then I went to take the breaker out of the front of the car back thru the engine bay, the way I put it in. FAIL! The hole was not large enough to allow it to clear the pulley. It was pretty late when I came up with the above idea to get a straight on whack on the pulley and I was pretty bushed so I did not even thing about getting the tool back out.
So either I was going to have a Unicorn FJ60 with the breaker bar sticking out of the snout or I was going to have to sacrifice a good 1/2" breaker bar... Or, I was going to reshape the hole by convincing it with the baby sledge (from the rear) that the breaker bar was going to fit thru that hole. You guessed it... friendly persuasion.
I thought of what my grandfather used to say: "When in doubt, read the directions. Much better to read them before you skrew something up than after." I went back and read the service manual and of course they had a beautiful picture of them beating it on with a special tool. And, of course the engine was not behind the sheet metal or the frame and it was easy for them to get to everything including room to swing a hammer.
We determined that the hole in the front sheet metal (that I had heard was there for hand cranking the engine) aligns perfectly with the center of the pulley. Mine is now a bit 'out of sorts' because the front hole thru the sheet metal is larger than the rear one through the inside layer of sheet metal. I inserted a breaker bar with a huge socket on it (since I did not have the specialized tool) through the hole... The socket end of the breaker bar could be inserted through the front hole in the sheet metal but was a little too large for the rear hole. So, I inserted it from the rear leaving the socket end toward the pulley...
I put the pulley on the shaft and put the big socket on the breaker bar... Took a four pound baby sledge and persuaded it to slide on. Then I went to take the breaker out of the front of the car back thru the engine bay, the way I put it in. FAIL! The hole was not large enough to allow it to clear the pulley. It was pretty late when I came up with the above idea to get a straight on whack on the pulley and I was pretty bushed so I did not even thing about getting the tool back out.
So either I was going to have a Unicorn FJ60 with the breaker bar sticking out of the snout or I was going to have to sacrifice a good 1/2" breaker bar... Or, I was going to reshape the hole by convincing it with the baby sledge (from the rear) that the breaker bar was going to fit thru that hole. You guessed it... friendly persuasion.
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srplus
Walked with the Dinosaurs
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- #72
Thanx for all the help gentlemen... you too HH and Yoop! Pappy and D'Animal and the rest of you guyz.
I now have reassembled everything and will have to have the A/C recharged, but the TRUCK is running and sounds good.
I do not think I would have been able to figure this out and get it done without the help from my mud friends. Thanx ever so much.
I still have a couple of relevant pics that I will post up as soon as I can get them outta the camera and have a little time.
Jim, thanx especially for your timely and always spot on advice. Parts men CDan and Val deserve special kudos.
I now have reassembled everything and will have to have the A/C recharged, but the TRUCK is running and sounds good.
I do not think I would have been able to figure this out and get it done without the help from my mud friends. Thanx ever so much.
I still have a couple of relevant pics that I will post up as soon as I can get them outta the camera and have a little time.
Jim, thanx especially for your timely and always spot on advice. Parts men CDan and Val deserve special kudos.
