94 G Wagon vs 94 FZJ80

[rtarh2o]

I have sold my 6.2 diesel powered Land Cruiser. My reason for selling was to convert a 97 with minor front end damage that has been in my workshop for the past year. Now my 15 year old son has decided the Land Cruiser might be a cool car when he starts driving (about time he figures that out) but he doesn't want the diesel.
About the same time he decided this I found a Mercedes 1994 G350DT. I was looking for a Turbo Diesel G Wagon for quite awhile before I decided to convert a Land Cruiser mainly because of the fact the Mercedes is the ultimate WVO engine.
After quite a bit of research I discovered that there are only a handful of turbo diesel G Wagons in the States, that is the point I realized I would probably never find one and started on the Land Cruiser conversion.
Now out of nowhere one appears on ebay about a month ago, there are only 3 of these G350DT's in the United States, very rare. The last one brought around $35,000 last summer. This one for some reason went unsold for $22,000 even after the seller ran it 2 times. I did a little research and found quite a few posts on some G Wagon forums about his vehicle. He bought it with a bad engine and has had problems for a couple years getting it right. He now says it is right but all the posts on the forums scared all the potential buyers away (very small community of buyers I guess) The guy has receipts over $15,000 of work he has done on it. I have spoken with 2 of his mechanics about it, as well as many talks with the seller. I tend to believe his story so I am taking a chance and buying it for what I think is a great price. The G Wagons come from the factory with front, center and rear lockers. This particular one even has a rare Brabus intercooler that is supposed to put it around 165 HP.
I am really going to miss having a diesel Land Cruiser ( I love everything about it!) and still plan to convert the 97 in a couple years when my son goes off (or when gas hits $4 a gallon again!) but it will be fun to have both in the family for comparison.
I will keep posted with my thoughts
Rusty

 

[romey]

my first post on mud was asking about the g wagons...
i'm sure there are some points of interest for you here:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/190946-mercedes-vs-toyota-turbo-diesels.html

i hear the 95 G270CDI is a saweet rig, so i was told. not sure if the US got that particular one tho... always loved looking at the dupont registry, always tonnes of Gwagon diesels on there, mucho bucks tho!

 

[lt1fire]

Expensive to repair... expensive to own.... stay with the cruier.

 

[mainemike]

The G-Wagons are very capable, and that is a great rig. You already know it is very rare, and you know it will pose some issues with parts/maintenance, but it sounds like you've always wanted one... and you only live once! Go for it!

 

[sailor]

I got rear ended by a G Wagen in my YJ once and can attest that the Merc is a total Panzer! That incident reminded me of the Tiger vs. Sherman episode on Tanks last month. Nice truck- yet my heart bleeds...

 

[concretejungle]

i guess it's all about what you want to use the truck for. If it's more of a DD, grocery getter', than cool. I would not want to wheel a rare vehicle like that.

 

[jhanley]

It's called a "G" for that reason alone I'd buy one. They look like vaults and nobody has one. If i could afford it, I'd be on benzworld instead of ih8mud.

 

[Hilux]

2 door, or 4door?

I'd have to admit, I'd love to have a G.

That TD would return some awesome mpg to...

killer wheelers. I will have one.


If it's a 4 door, just go with the Cruiser. If it's a two door, you really can't compare IMO.


pics?

 

[knorrena]

I would buy it. I think you are more than mechanically savvy enough to handle whatever it throws at you. The cost of parts may be higher than those of the cruiser, but hey thats the price you pay for playing this game.

 

[rtarh2o]

Here is a link to some good pictures of it. I am not crazy about the color but from what I have heard only 3 of these were imported and 2 of them are this color!
gw
I am torn between it and the Cruiser so I am glad I will still have an 80 in the family.
The G is extremely capable off road, it is smaller than the 80 and has the lockers. I have never even sat in one but have admired them for a long time. From what I hear the doors are like bank vaults. Build quality is on par with the Land Cruiser. Parts might be more than Toyota but from what I have found Toyota is pretty proud of their parts as well.
The good thing is that this engine was used in a sedan here in the states for quite a few years. I have looked around at prices and they really aren't that bad. It is old enough it is mechanical injected, few electricals so it should be fairly easy to work on.
I don't do any hard core wheeling, so I am not too worried about tearing it up but I will take it off road.
My 6.2 diesel Land Cruiser will be gone in a couple weeks, going to a good home in Ft Collins Colorado, if you are there I am sure you will see it!
As soon as I get the G Wagon home I am going to put my 97 FZJ80 back together stock and get it ready for my son, he still has a few months before he can drive so I will take that time to compare the two.
Rusty

 

[Hilux]

Here is a link to some good pictures of it. I am not crazy about the color but from what I have heard only 3 of these were imported and 2 of them are this color!
gw
I am torn between it and the Cruiser so I am glad I will still have an 80 in the family.
The G is extremely capable off road, it is smaller than the 80 and has the lockers. I have never even sat in one but have admired them for a long time. From what I hear the doors are like bank vaults. Build quality is on par with the Land Cruiser. Parts might be more than Toyota but from what I have found Toyota is pretty proud of their parts as well.
The good thing is that this engine was used in a sedan here in the states for quite a few years. I have looked around at prices and they really aren't that bad. It is old enough it is mechanical injected, few electricals so it should be fairly easy to work on.
I don't do any hard core wheeling, so I am not too worried about tearing it up but I will take it off road.
My 6.2 diesel Land Cruiser will be gone in a couple weeks, going to a good home in Ft Collins Colorado, if you are there I am sure you will see it!
As soon as I get the G Wagon home I am going to put my 97 FZJ80 back together stock and get it ready for my son, he still has a few months before he can drive so I will take that time to compare the two.
Rusty

"If it's a 4 door..." uhh, I take that back.


That thing would be in my garage already if I had the coin.

Build quality is on par with the Land Cruiser. Parts might be more than Toyota but from what I have found Toyota is pretty proud of their parts as well.

I was gonna say the same exact thing.....pot, meet kettle


If I turned my own wrench, I wouldn't let that stop me.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43K8EZ3Trtc

 

[romey]

higher grade steel compared to 'yotas b/c of it's continued military use, tripple locked, can squeeze 35's in, dayum. i found a dealer here that brought all diesel g wagons from europe, left hand drive, clean and decent mileage....ah well. too late. still love my 80 tho!

anyway, i was told that they're not good for long highway use cuz of the high revs and gearing, they're designed to cruise not too fast in the desert and dirt roads, not on freeways doin 65mph...

the canadian military has the diesel g wagons and i hear they do auctions and sell them off from time to time, albeit a little beat up prolly...hmm...

 

[TLCAddict]

go for the MBZ

rtarh20-

nice MBZ...I say, go for it!
I know exactly where you're comin from. I've been looky-looing for a decent FZJ80 for a while, when the and I stumbled upon an '02 G500 at the dealership -definitely more common than your G350DT!! I must say...whoa!! it's a nice rig inside, very stout, esp. w/ the front & rear diff., but, in the end, it was the coin ($36k) it would've been nice havin both the G500 & FJ62 in the driveway.
good luck!

jz

 

[rtarh2o]

Well, first off this is about half of what TLCaddict paid for the G500, I couldn't pass it up. I figure if I drive it for a year and don't like it I can at least break even or maybe even make some money on it. As I said in the first post, the only other one of these I have seen go through on ebay brought around twice what I am paying for this one, I feel pretty good about that. Of course I am taking a risk that others weren't willing to take about the mechanical condition, but I feel like for the price I am paying I can't go too wrong. I have searched on ebay for engines and used Mercedes diesels go pretty cheap so I am not too worried.
I am anxious to get it, install a mild lift and maybe some 33" tires and see how it does.
About Romey's post, the earlier NA diesels were pitifully slow, would barely run 60 mph, but they would last forever and performed great off road. Around 1990 they upgraded the entire vehicle (sort of like the FJ62 - FJ80) offered turbo diesels, upgraded interior etc. These vehicles are night and day from the earlier models and will drive down the road at 80 mph easily.
Again, this is all from what I have read, I will let you know first hand in a couple weeks!
Rusty

 

[gisham]

I sold my G500 before purchasing an E500 to daily drive and the fzj just because i always wanted one- Very cool truck and I have lots friends with them. go see Dutch at POINTEDTHREE - The Maybach, Mercedes-Benz and SMART Enthusiast Group. He knows most of the old G's in the States and if he does not someone on that forum does- good bunch of guys.

 

[gisham]

funny- there are a few guys on that forum who actually have cruisers as well- they have even spoken of this forum on thiers- im surprised they have not popped up-

 

[rtarh2o]

I have been posting on the pointed three about this as well. The vehicle I am buying has been talked about alot on that forum, that is why it went so cheap. Like I said, the G Wagon community is pretty small so this G350DT is known to have had alot of problems in the past couple of years. I am taking a chance on it but have spoken with the owner multiple times as well as a couple of mechanics that worked on it. For some reason I believe that it is now fixed correctly and should be fine. With that said, there is still a problem as it warms up with a bit of an erratic idle that he says goes away in about 30 seconds. He also says it has a small injector leak, the injector leak probably explains the erratic idle. The engine has been totally gone through, most everything is new. I hope my gut feeling about this guy is right, you can usually tell after a few phone calls and numerous emails but I could be wrong, even so the G is clean enough that it is a keeper even if I have to drop a new engine in it.
It is funny though about The Pointed Three site, they just bashed and bashed the previous owner about it. I get on and mention I am considering buying it and not a one of them has tried to tell me not too, they are mostly supportive and have told me to do it, go figure, I should thank them for driving the price so far down I can finally afford one!
Rusty

 

[speyrod]

The engine used in the sedan had serious issues as I recall. My dad has a 300 SDL with about 70K miles, he thought about getting a 350 SDL for my mom. After some research and talking to a few mechanics they said stay away from the 350. I don't recall the reason, it might have been head or HG probs. He has a 461 cab diesel running WVO also, the 2 doors are much larger than they look. Looks like a nice rig, had I found it
I would also have been tempted, I'm thinking 100 also.

 

[rtarh2o]

This is the engine with the problems. They took the 3.0 liter and stroked it to 3.5, apparently they stroked it so much it ended up bending rods. This ended up causing all kinds of problems. There are upgraded rods that make it last longer but what basically happens is the cylinders get ovalized and it starts leaking oil. It is a gradual thing and nothing catastrophic happens. There were also problems with early heads and gaskets, these too were remedied. The engine in this one has been rebuilt and only has about 2,000 miles on the rebuild and was assembled using all the upgraded parts. Even with all the newer stronger parts the engines apparently didn't last long enough for Mercedes standards so they dropped the engine and went back to the 3.0 liter. Forums are not always the place to hear good things about a vehicle or engine, there are alot of posts about problems with these engines but I have also found alot of posts from people with several hundred thousand miles on the engines without any problems. I came across the same things when I was trying to decide on the 6.2 diesel I put in my Land Cruiser, many people think it is the worst engine ever made but most of those people have never even driven one.
I am pretty sure I can get at least 100,000 miles out of this engine, in this time (assuming I like the car) I will find a good 3.0 liter core, rebuild it and when the time comes swap it in, it is a direct fit, accessories and all so it won't be a problem plus cores for that engine are easy to come by and cheap.
Rusty

 

[dclee]

higher grade steel compared to 'yotas b/c of it's continued military use, tripple locked, can squeeze 35's in, dayum. i found a dealer here that brought all diesel g wagons from europe, left hand drive, clean and decent mileage....ah well. too late. still love my 80 tho!

anyway, i was told that they're not good for long highway use cuz of the high revs and gearing, they're designed to cruise not too fast in the desert and dirt roads, not on freeways doin 65mph...

the canadian military has the diesel g wagons and i hear they do auctions and sell them off from time to time, albeit a little beat up prolly...hmm...

Hmm, I guess I'll chime in here. I'm on my second G-Wagen and have owned two 80s in the past. Let me preface this by saying that I absolutely love the 80. It is by far my favorite Land Cruiser (despite the fact that I currently own a 100 Series).

That said, the G does have some nice things going for it. The sheetmetal comment is absolutely correct. While it can and does rust (like any other high-carbon steel), it's a full millimeter thick, and the truck weighs more than an 80, even though it is smaller in dimensions (except the wheelbase, which is the same). As a result of that, it also has great angles (~36 degrees approach, ~31 degrees departure). It's an absolute bank vault. Just try closing one of those doors, but don't get your hand caught, it'll get severed! Build quality is superb (it is virtually 100% hand-assembled, just like a Rolls Royce).

The bottom is as smooth as a toboggan. Nothing sticks down below the frame rails, including the control arm mounts. One gripe I have with Toyota trucks is that the t-cases. control arms, and sometimes fuel tanks hang down and are vulnerable. The t-case on the G is divorced and fully synchronized (the only such t-case I am aware of in the world), which is a huge advantage when starting off in low range and needing to shift to high without stopping and losing momentum. On the part-time trucks, you can shift from 2WD to 4WD HI to 4WD LO at pretty much any speed you feel comfortable with. 99% of Gs are fully locked front and rear (and center on the full-time trucks). Mine has fully mechanical/hydraulic lockers, no electronics to fail, and they also allow me to lock in any order, or just the front (though I can only think of about one situation where I might need that).

As for the engines, yes, they are a bit anemic, at least the NA diesels. But pretty much bullet-proof. Also, the turbo diesel is a very easy swap. It's almost a direct bolt-in depending on which engine you use. OM617As from the 300 sedans should almost be direct bolt-ins. I wouldn't worry about the revs. These are originally all sedan engines, designed for sustained high speed autobahn running. They are built to rev high for long periods. You might need some more soundproofing, though. The NA diesels will hold 75 all day long in the flats, but you might have to downshift on hills. The turbo diesels and gassers have plenty of power.

There are some very nice touches. The intake is cyclonic and set up high in the engine bay. The alternator (at least on the diesels) is sealed and even has its own snorkel! Factory R&P is 4.88:1, and depending on gearbox you can get a 4.65 first gear (all much lower than a factory 80 auto, though the 80 has a torque converter). The military gearboxes are fully sealed for wading, and can be had relatively cheap on German eBay. Since the body is virtually unchanged since 1979, and Mercedes-Benz has agreed to produce it through 2012 for NATO, all body panels and virtually all other mechanical/electronic parts for any truck from 1979 to present are available from the dealer, no fabrication required! Not cheap, but then again, neither are factory new Toyota parts.

If this is a '94, it is most likely a 463 series. This is the full-time vehicle with the plush interior and electrically-actuated lockers. Nice ride, less utilitarian than the older 460 trucks or the "worker" 461s, but with more electronics and complexity.

G's are great expedition vehicles, perhaps the best ever made. You can certainly turn them into rock crawlers, but it won't be cheap due to lack of aftermarket support (at least in North America) and you'd then be subjecting a very rare truck to lots of carnage.

edit: Example: you can get up to 6.17 R&P gears, but only from the factory. Going rate: ~$800 per axle, before install kits or labor!

HTH,