I need some suggestions for improving the brakes on stock 93 TLC with ABS and 4-wheel disk brakes. Stock system is unsatisfactory even with a recent brake job.
93 Land Cruiser Brake Improvements?
- Thread starter rdye
- Start date
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rdye,
First, define "recent brake job." All brake jobs are not created equal.
The following will give you the best possible brake feel for your 80. The 80's brake feel won't be as firm as your BMW but it will be much better.
1. New OEM rotors on all 4 wheels.
2. New OEM 80 series pads in the rear and 100 series pads up front. Take the extra time to clean up the calipers and the sliding pins. Don't just throw the pads in and call it good.
3. Flush and fill complete brake system with Valvoline syn or another top quality brake fluid. Do the best possible job with bleeding. Some use special tools for pressurizing the system.
4. SS flexible brake lines ( it uses 3.)
5. Adjust the LSPV properly (i.e. use the pressure guages.)
6. Make sure all wheel bearings are properly adjusted.
7. If you suspect a sticking caliper then you can either replace or rebuild. There's been quite a debate on the pros and cons. I rebuilt the fronts and it was a 1/2 banana job with compressed air.
8. Use the pad bedding procedure we've discussed in the archives. Basically, it is 6 agressive stops from 60 to 5 MPH and allow the pads to cool a little between stops.
-B-
First, define "recent brake job." All brake jobs are not created equal.
The following will give you the best possible brake feel for your 80. The 80's brake feel won't be as firm as your BMW but it will be much better.
1. New OEM rotors on all 4 wheels.
2. New OEM 80 series pads in the rear and 100 series pads up front. Take the extra time to clean up the calipers and the sliding pins. Don't just throw the pads in and call it good.
3. Flush and fill complete brake system with Valvoline syn or another top quality brake fluid. Do the best possible job with bleeding. Some use special tools for pressurizing the system.
4. SS flexible brake lines ( it uses 3.)
5. Adjust the LSPV properly (i.e. use the pressure guages.)
6. Make sure all wheel bearings are properly adjusted.
7. If you suspect a sticking caliper then you can either replace or rebuild. There's been quite a debate on the pros and cons. I rebuilt the fronts and it was a 1/2 banana job with compressed air.
8. Use the pad bedding procedure we've discussed in the archives. Basically, it is 6 agressive stops from 60 to 5 MPH and allow the pads to cool a little between stops.
-B-
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tucker74
Moderator
Would be helpful to know what you've got now in terms of brakes. For instance, if you tell us you've got JC Penney Brakes, the steering wheel shimmies at stops and the brake light on the dash has been lit for 7 years, we might have a few different things to say than if you told us you had 4 piston red powdercoated Brembo calipers, cross drilled racing rotors, and stainless lines.
Ditto what you don't like about the brakes. If you've got 38" tires and 1500lbs of offroad mods and are complaining about poor performance at the local race track, this would be helpful info.
Just fill in the blanks, eh?
DougM
Ditto what you don't like about the brakes. If you've got 38" tires and 1500lbs of offroad mods and are complaining about poor performance at the local race track, this would be helpful info.
Just fill in the blanks, eh?
DougM
semlin
curmudgeon
oem rotors are $75 each for the fronts and 100 series oem front pads are $55 a pair (if you know where to look) so throw in rear OEM pads and some synthetic brake fluid and you are good to go for under $300. I doubt the back of anyone's truck needs new rotors. That kit looks like overkill to me. I agree with all that b-wulf says except that I have heard mixed reviews on stainless steel brake lines (e.g., they burst). Personally the brakes improved 300% when I put on new front OEM rotors and 100 series pads and bled the whole system until everything everywhere was nice and red with standard (toyota) brake fluid. I am now quite happy with the braking.
semlin said:
UPS man delivered a pair to me today, my rears are warped .030" and at minimum thickness, hopefully I can get hem installed before the trip to FL next week
>> I have heard mixed reviews on stainless steel brake lines (e.g., they burst). <<
His question was how to get the best brake feel, not the best brake system. FWIW, I'm running the MAF SS brake lines and the improved feel was noticable but it's difficult to attribute the improvement to one thing because I also flushed and bled the system at the same time.
Can you post a link to the SS brake line failures?
-B-
His question was how to get the best brake feel, not the best brake system. FWIW, I'm running the MAF SS brake lines and the improved feel was noticable but it's difficult to attribute the improvement to one thing because I also flushed and bled the system at the same time.
Can you post a link to the SS brake line failures?
-B-
Safedo,
If you can't find the 38.2 minutes it takes to replace the rear rotors before your trip, then you deserve to feel that yank, yank, yank all the way there.......heh. Don't forget the rear caliper torque is lower than the fronts - 76? 70 lbs-ft or something rather than the 90-ish. You probably know this in your sleep. I'd also swap them side to side if they've been run much like that as they will have developed a wear pattern from constant hard/soft braking in the exact same spots on the circumference.
Cheers,
DougM
If you can't find the 38.2 minutes it takes to replace the rear rotors before your trip, then you deserve to feel that yank, yank, yank all the way there.......heh. Don't forget the rear caliper torque is lower than the fronts - 76? 70 lbs-ft or something rather than the 90-ish. You probably know this in your sleep. I'd also swap them side to side if they've been run much like that as they will have developed a wear pattern from constant hard/soft braking in the exact same spots on the circumference.
Cheers,
DougM
- Thread starter
- #11
Thanks for the Input
The Land Cruiser has OEM rotors. Fronts were turned with the last brake job performed by a reputable shop. They have done work for me for years including my 92 4Runner which has had no problems.
The complaint I have is a slight pulsing when braking and not great stopping power. Once the brakes warm up a little the braking is much better but you really have to bear down when they are cold. Even for this heavy beast I think the performance should be better.
Thanks for all the suggestions. Now I have a place to start.
-rdye
The Land Cruiser has OEM rotors. Fronts were turned with the last brake job performed by a reputable shop. They have done work for me for years including my 92 4Runner which has had no problems.
The complaint I have is a slight pulsing when braking and not great stopping power. Once the brakes warm up a little the braking is much better but you really have to bear down when they are cold. Even for this heavy beast I think the performance should be better.
Thanks for all the suggestions. Now I have a place to start.
-rdye
rdye,
This still tells us nothing about the pads, tire sizes, etc as requested. Welcome to the board! Please be advised this is more of a technical group and you won't get much without providing details that can be worked with versus broad brush questions.
DougM
This still tells us nothing about the pads, tire sizes, etc as requested. Welcome to the board! Please be advised this is more of a technical group and you won't get much without providing details that can be worked with versus broad brush questions.
DougM
rdye said:
rdye,
I have the same problem as you.
I've tried this new break pad in another heavy 1999 vehicle (non-LC) and they worked wonders. They stop harder, lasted longer, and don't dust.
call Monty Holt, (company name is Bits and Pieces in Long Beach, phone is 562-420-3557) and explain your situation. Ask about the HPS (ok) and the super heavy duty hawk pads (great).
You can get the 80 f. pads in super (.591") and the 100 f. pads (.685") in HPS only.
Last edited:
rdye,
As Doug requested, you need to give us more information on the brake job if you are requesting assistance with an issue. You haven't said how many miles since the work was done and you've given us very little information.
>> Fronts were turned with the last brake job performed by a reputable shop. <<
In general, most on this list advise against having the front rotors turned. Most that have had theirs turned have complained of pulsing brakes shortly after having the rotors machined. For best brake performance we recommend replacing warped or worn rotors with new OEM, or a high quality aftermarket like Brembo or DBA.
-B-
As Doug requested, you need to give us more information on the brake job if you are requesting assistance with an issue. You haven't said how many miles since the work was done and you've given us very little information.
>> Fronts were turned with the last brake job performed by a reputable shop. <<
In general, most on this list advise against having the front rotors turned. Most that have had theirs turned have complained of pulsing brakes shortly after having the rotors machined. For best brake performance we recommend replacing warped or worn rotors with new OEM, or a high quality aftermarket like Brembo or DBA.
-B-
semlin
curmudgeon
b-wulf can't find the post but I believe people have posted in the past that even though they are DOT approved they will fatigue and burst in a way rubber won't.
rdye said:
Pulsing through the pedal says to me the rotors are out of true, there might be a slight run out on the rotors, which you could check by taking off the wheels and spinning the rotors and use a straight edge against the backplate for a quick check to see if there is in variation when the rotor is turning.
Could be the rears if the fronts were turned last time, or could be they got the fronts a bit bad when they turned them.
The brakes being a bit inefficient could be a number of things (and bear in mind I don't have an LC yet - just looking at the moment however I do have a Toyota 4 runner):
1. Pads to hard a compound - this would also explain why they improve when hot..... however you pay the price for a soft compound with increased brake fade when hot.
2. Rear Load proprortioning valve putting too much pressure to the rear which reduces the effective pressure on the front.
3. Vacuum leak on the servo, or servo pressure valve playing up - could also explain the pulsing
4. Master cylinder faulty.
5. ABS faulty - again could easily explain the pulsing as the brakes go on and off - that's if you have ABS on your truck.
Problem with brake faults is that they can be so many different things. If the brakes were OK before the last brake job then I would suspect something that was done then.
Cheers
Andy
hoser
SILVER Star
semlin said:
The problem with some stainless steel brake lines is that dirt and debris can get stuck between the SS and rubber line and abrade the rubber line.
What you want are DOT approved Stainless Steel brakes lines with a protective sheath over it all.
