93 Accord let me sit this a.m.

[EricG]

Stats first ... 1993 Accord, 2.2L, 5 Speed, 4 door, 186K miles, no problems or work recently.
I felt a little rough when I started it this morning - it hadn't been started since Friday. Overnight temps were in the 30s, car is not garaged. Full tank of 87 octane.

Once on the road it seemed to run fine - with maybe one fleeting stumble. Then, about 2.5 miles down the road the CEL, battery and oil light came on and the engine died. Car would then crank fine, but not start. Something I noticed is that this is right about the point where I start to get heat on cold mornings.

I got a ride back home and took the 80 into work. Drove back over lunch to see if I could pull a code or anything to make the decision whether to tow it home or to a shop. First, I couldn't find the plug to short to read the OBD I codes - supposed to be a light blue connector somewhere under the dash on the passenger side. Can anybody tell me more exactly where to find it? And second - it started right up! No CEL either.

So - suggestions where to start looking? And more specific location of the OBD 1 plug?

 

[Okie_dave]

My 95 accord has a plug that is just under the lip of the glove box door. It is kind of deceiving because it is plugged into a blank plug. I have to take that out and short 2 pins together to get the code displayed on the CEL light flashes.

I had a couple of strange problems with my older 90 Civic. One was that the fuel relay would often stop working when it was cold. When it warmed up - it worked fine. This problem usually occurred when I first tried to start it in the AM. The other problem was an ignition switch that overheated and broke down the solder. It seems Honda did not use a relay for the starter relay - so all current goes through the ignition switch. I resoldered the switch once and it did it again. It was such a pain to get to, I replaved it the next time.

If it was colder where you are - I would considered a frozen fuel line.

good luck.

 

[EricG]

Yea, frozen fuel line occurred to me ... it was certainly below freezing last night, though not by much. That would explain it running this afternoon - it's in the 50s now. I'll dump a bottle of dry-gas in as well.

I do hear the fuel pump running when I turned the key on this afternoon - didn't take note of that this morning.

 

[EricG]

Well, I got it home tonight. Went down with my neighbor and a tow strap. Started right up and ran all the way home - but it wasn't running well. Just felt rough and maybe the power was surging a little. I did put the dry gas in it also.

So at least it's at home and I can deal with it on my own schedule. And it's a good excuse to drive the cruiser

 

[35inchoverdrive]

Next time it won't start, check to see if you're getting spark and fuel. It'll help a lot to be able to rule out one of those systems.

 

[Makelo]

X2, most likely it can be your distributor (igniter)

 

[EricG]

What's the best way to check for fuel in a fuel injected engines? On carburators, I'd just hit it with a shot of starting fluid - if it caught briefly, I assumed it wasn't getting fuel the normal way. Or on small engines, pull a plug and see if it was wet after cranking awhile.

 

[35inchoverdrive]

Many fuel injected vehicles have a schraeter(sp?) valve(like a tire valve stem) on the fuel rail. Once the key is in the 'run' position, the fuel pump should pressurize the system. All you have to do is push down on the valve and see if fuel squirts out. I have no person experience with Hondas, so I don't know exactly where this valve would be, or if it has one.

 

[EricG]

Just came in from working on it to warm up my hands. No shraeder valve on hondas. Has a service port on the fuel rail - I may see about getting a fitting from that to a shraeder. In any case, I decided to change the fuel filter as PM and check the pressure - got a gauge @ pep boys this a.m. I'm reading just shy of 40 PSI at the filter housing - but the car is running now, so doesn't tell me if it's the cause of the failure when it stops. But the fact that the pump is making spec pressure is probably a good thing.

 

[35inchoverdrive]

It sounds like you've got everything covered. I hope it fails on you in the driveway so you can have a comfortable troubleshooting session.

 

[EricG]

Well, I've been driving it all week, and it hasn't let me sit again. Though the engine did cut out for a few seconds 2 or 3 times. Running smooth other then that.

I did some PM on it today - new distributer cap & rotor (looked pretty worn), new plug wires and plugs and a new PCV. There was ALOT of oil in the tube for the first plug (closest to distributer), and some in the other 3. What's up with that? Bad valve cover gasket? Smoked like hell when I started it!

The other thing that was a little weird was the plugs - at least two of them had kind of a greenish color/deposit on them - like corrosion on copper. Any idea what that is?

 

[35inchoverdrive]

I would suspect that your spark plug tube seals have gone south. They usually come with the gasket. I've never seen green plugs before, but I was able to find this-

"Many--but not all--spark-plug electrodes have an alloy composition that will oxidize green when subjected to high temperatures (see Photo 2, again). This nickel oxide on the center wire and sidewire would show up first at the tip of the electrode--the hottest part--and progress from there, depending on temperature. Excessive green oxide may signal it's time to change to a colder plug."

-from this site-

Servicing spark plugs

 

[raydouble]

If you've got oil in the spark plug tube it's the seals under the valve cover for sure. (4 round)

Behind the kick panel (plastic triangle) on the pass side you should find the code pulling plug.

If you pm me your email I can send you some FSM pages if you need them, have you tested or replaced the Main EFI relay? Causes the cranking no start all the time.

 

[EricG]

I would suspect that your spark plug tube seals have gone south. They usually come with the gasket. I've never seen green plugs before, but I was able to find this-

"Many--but not all--spark-plug electrodes have an alloy composition that will oxidize green when subjected to high temperatures (see Photo 2, again). This nickel oxide on the center wire and sidewire would show up first at the tip of the electrode--the hottest part--and progress from there, depending on temperature. Excessive green oxide may signal it's time to change to a colder plug."

-from this site-

Servicing spark plugs

Yea, google found that for me also. Strange that that's the only place I found that mentioned. I think I'm going to run these for awhile and take another look. Need to get the timing belt done as well, so I'll have them do those seals while they have the valve cover gasket off.

 

[EricG]

It left me sitting again yesterday morning. Only got about 50 feet out of the driveway this time, so the engine was still cold. Just like before - plenty of crank, but no start. I didn't have time to check things out in detail. When I came back after work it started right up like nothing happened. I ran it for a few minutes and no problems.

Maybe related ... I've gone through two sets of plug wires since I replaced the distributor cap/roter, wires and plugs back in January!? Been meaning to start a thread on that as well. Back in Jan. I put new ignition wires on it - Advance Auto generic brand - Xacta I think? In about April it started running like crap - missing/hesitating at low idle and getting worse pretty fast. Went from occasionally noticeable to undrivable in a few days. I barely limped it into the Advance Auto store on the way home, popped the hood and found my ignition wires in tatters!

It looks like the insulation on the wires is cracking or sliced, and sections literally look like they exploded from the inside. The first time it was the wire from the coil, and 2 of the plug wires. I got those replaced under warranty, figuring it was likely defective product or ??

So last Thursday, the same thing happened again! I had noticed some hesitation that morning. By afternoon, it was dying. Again limped it into Advance Auto - this time opted for Autolite wires. Again, the coil wire was destroyed (came apart in my hands) and the #4 plug wire as well. Nothing in the vicinity to cause mechanical damage, no sign of rodents (doesn't look like chewed wires). I kept the coil wire this time and will try to posts pics soon.

Any ideas??

 

[EricG]

Final (I hope) update on this. After replacing the coil (tested bad) and main relay (throwing parts at it) it finally wouldn't start on a sunny Sat. morning about 3 weeks ago. Found no spark. The ignitor tested OK, but I read that bench tests of coils & ignitors are unreliable. So I replaced it - fired right up, and it's been running fine ever since - about 500 miles so far.

I'm assuming this was somehow responsible for burning up the plug wires also - I'll keep an eye on that.

 

[cruiser88]

I was going to mention the distributor's in these cars are horrible........good call