4R vs 460 Buyer questions

[Moose545]

So I've been poking around here a while and started to look at the 4R's a little more, either a SR5 Premium with the leather/adj seats, or Trail/Trail Premium versions or higher. Not looking to spend more than 30k used. One thing the 4R has me concerned about is rust, the evil golden demon.

Is there any difference in factory corrosion protection?

Would a CPO 460 give me any more than a CPO 4R? My last check there were only 2 CPO 460's left nationwide but that changes daily, a LOT more 4R's to choose from than 460s though. Shooting to stay under 60-70k miles.

Another perspective, SR5 Premium route, no locker, but I could add it no issue; not sure what that'd cost me vs. getting a truck with one already. 4R could always add a supercharger too later on. Lighter, no useless 3rd row. Thanks for the help.

 

[krice118]

Get the 460. They’re great. Super smooth, great V8 Super plush

 

[Virgilus11]

Not much difference corrosion wise. 2016 and is full of rust everywhere a weld is present.

 

[r2m]

So I've been poking around here a while and started to look at the 4R's a little more, either a SR5 Premium with the leather/adj seats, or Trail/Trail Premium versions or higher. Not looking to spend more than 30k used. One thing the 4R has me concerned about is rust, the evil golden demon.

Is there any difference in factory corrosion protection?

Would a CPO 460 give me any more than a CPO 4R? My last check there were only 2 CPO 460's left nationwide but that changes daily, a LOT more 4R's to choose from than 460s though. Shooting to stay under 60-70k miles.

Another perspective, SR5 Premium route, no locker, but I could add it no issue; not sure what that'd cost me vs. getting a truck with one already. 4R could always add a supercharger too later on. Lighter, no useless 3rd row. Thanks for the help.

Not sure where you're from, but to put it this way, if you're worried about rust, then you are probably in the northern part of the country or our neighbor Canada. If that's the case, get the GX for the heated seats, heated steering wheel and three climate zones.
The 4R will not have that. I don't think the SR5 even has heated seats.

Again, if you're worried about rust, I'd still go with a GX. Being a Lexus, it will have premium everything (read: paint, sound proofing, interior, sound system, and probably better rust protection, etc. etc. etc.). If you want that level of quality in a Toyota, you'll need to go with a Landcrusier, because you sure as heck won't get it in a 4R! I know, I've owned two Landcruisers, Tacoma, Previa minivan, 89' pickup, 89' 4R, all Toyota's. We love our Toyota's in this family! But we love the Lexus more!!

 

[JTU]

I have a 2017 4r Trd-offroad. I’ve put 50k miles on it in the past 18 months with several big offroad trips. It’s been a perfect vehicle with zero issues.

That being said, I hate driving it on the western US interstates where the speed limit is 80-85mph. It catches wind like crazy and sucks fuel. I average 15mpg my last cross country trip. I have stock size bfg KO2 tires. The v6 in it it’s so underpowered.

Now it would take a decent upgrades to make a 460 go the places a stock 4r will go. And the 4r has much better value retention than a 460 but you can pick up a good 2-3 year old 460 for mid 30s.

When I trade in my 4r, it will either be for a 460 or a 200. The 460 v8 and the added plushness of the interior are just huge steps above the 4r.

 

[r2m]

JTU, if you should trade in your 4R and plan on doing the same type of off-roading, I highly suggest NOT going with the 200 series. You will probably be over sized for many trails. The nice thing about the GX 460 is that it's about the size of the 4R but with the V8 and all the warm fuzzy stuff to boot!

 

[Tex68w]

I have a 2017 4r Trd-offroad. I’ve put 50k miles on it in the past 18 months with several big offroad trips. It’s been a perfect vehicle with zero issues.

That being said, I hate driving it on the western US interstates where the speed limit is 80-85mph. It catches wind like crazy and sucks fuel. I average 15mpg my last cross country trip. I have stock size bfg KO2 tires. The v6 in it it’s so underpowered.

Now it would take a decent upgrades to make a 460 go the places a stock 4r will go. And the 4r has much better value retention than a 460 but you can pick up a good 2-3 year old 460 for mid 30s.

When I trade in my 4r, it will either be for a 460 or a 200. The 460 v8 and the added plushness of the interior are just huge steps above the 4r.

I too have a 5th Gen 4Runner and a 200 series and we've owned a 460 in the past. I agree with what @JTU has said in regards to the 4Runner. If true off-road capability is what you are after then I would pick the 4Runner every single time over the 460. The motor and tranny leave a little to be desired in the power department but they are dead nuts reliable. Values hold better than those of the 460, but the 460 is a good value when purchased used, three to six years old.

If you want a plush SUV with a small V8 that can roll around on 33's and take you most places you need to go then the 460 is a great option. I personally hate the barn door on the 460 but that's a personal thing. The 200 series is just a smidge too big for some trails but in reality it's no bigger than a modern 1/2-ton truck so it's not bad on 90% of the trails most will see.

If I should decide to get rid of my 4Runner it'll likely be for another 200 series. The power, ride, and the fact that it isn't tossed around in high winds and while at highway speeds is reason enough to make the move IMHO. I am still not to the point of throwing in the towel on the 4Runner, but I get closer each time I think/talk about it.

 

[Qball]

Now it would take a decent upgrades to make a 460 go the places a stock 4r will go. And the 4r has much better value retention than a 460 but you can pick up a good 2-3 year old 460 for mid 30s.

So why do you say the 460 needs upgrades to have the same offroad ability as stock 4R? AFAIK they are both based on 150 have the same frame and for the most part same base suspension. Besides the different overhang/approach angle, I don't see how they will be different at all. The TRD versions have 2 inch lift and slightly bigger tires but that's really about it.

 

[Tex68w]

So why do you say the 460 needs upgrades to have the same offroad ability as stock 4R? AFAIK they are both based on 150 have the same frame and for the most part same base suspension. Besides the different overhang/approach angle, I don't see how they will be different at all. The TRD versions have 2 inch lift and slightly bigger tires but that's really about it.

Probably because they have no rear locker and worse approach and departure angles. Pick up a 2010-2013, add an ARB locker and front bumper with winch along with a OME 3" lift and and some 33's and you'll be golden.

 

[JTU]

The trucks may be based on the same frame and some suspension components but that's where the similarities end. You're correct in that the main differences are in the approach and departure angles. The newer year model GXs require extensive body modifications to have the same approach and departure as the 4r. the only way to improve those angles on thew newer GXs is to import Prado bumpers; to run sliders you have to import Prado rocker panels and then have those painted to match.

As mentioned above, it also does not have a rear locker (not a big deal but still). The KDSS and air suspension on the new GXs is also limits your choices of suspension. The older GX470s and GX460s are much easier to modify than the new ones.

 

[Qball]

Probably because they have no rear locker and worse approach and departure angles. Pick up a 2010-2013, add an ARB locker and front bumper with winch along with a OME 3" lift and and some 33's and you'll be golden.

I see, when you say stock you meant stock TRD Pro/Trail editions, to me the base models are stock. There is no doubt that the Pro or Trail edition is far more capable(less body damage) right out of a showroom. The counter to that is that no one I know leaves their rigs stock if they want to go offroad at all, even with the Pro version. My reasoning for going GX is eventually I'll upgrade to kings anyways so might as pay upfront for creature and comfort for the wife instead of the things I'm going to rip out. BTW KDDS is a must on these things.

Also I already installed sliders(my first mod to any offroad vehicles) and cut the factory trim so the I don't want to cut phase is already in the past.

 

[Tex68w]

I see, when you say stock you meant stock TRD Pro/Trail editions, to me the base models are stock. There is no doubt that the Pro or Trail edition is far more capable(less body damage) right out of a showroom. The counter to that is that no one I know leaves their rigs stock if they want to go offroad at all, even with the Pro version. My reasoning for going GX is eventually I'll upgrade to kings anyways so might as pay upfront for creature and comfort for the wife instead of the things I'm going to rip out. BTW KDDS is a must on these things.

Also I already installed sliders(my first mod to any offroad vehicles) and cut the factory trim so the I don't want to cut phase is already in the past.

Yea, I have a TRD Pro and it isn't stock so your assessment is 99% true haha. I am still running the factory Bilstein remote reservoir stuff but in conjunction with two-piece spacers for an extra 1.5" of lift. I will continue to run them until I decide whether or not to keep it and move up to BP-51's or King's and 285/75's.

I am one of the few who doesn't really care for KDSS, it has it's strong points, but in the long run it needs maintenance and will cause issues. I prefer not to have it but for those that tend to keep their rigs stock or only mildly built, it's a great system.

Once you make that first cut it's much easier to do all of the others in the future. I have no issue modifying my vehicles, it's easy when you don't want to be like everyone else lol.

 

[Qball]

Yea, I have a TRD Pro and it isn't stock so your assessment is 99% true haha. I am still running the factory Bilstein remote reservoir stuff but in conjunction with two-piece spacers for an extra 1.5" of lift. I will continue to run them until I decide whether or not to keep it and move up to BP-51's or King's and 285/75's.

I am one of the few who doesn't really care for KDSS, it has it's strong points, but in the long run it needs maintenance and will cause issues. I prefer not to have it but for those that tend to keep their rigs stock or only mildly built, it's a great system.

Once you make that first cut it's much easier to do all of the others in the future. I have no issue modifying my vehicles, it's easy when you don't want to be like everyone else lol.

Super nice rig!!! really wish Lexus has a TRD version instead of the lame Fsport for the GX. Totally agree on the KDDS but mine going on the road 99% of the time for a while so KDDS is super nice, it also can be ripped out later.

Personally, I'm a big king's fan so TC long arm and King's 2.5s will be on my radar after our GX roles pass ~100K and we get another family car. BP-51 seems to have some cold weather noise and at that price point, I would rather go with Kings because they will custom valve for your vehicle.....especially if you decide to go long arm route.

 

[Tex68w]

Thanks, it's a subtle build (for now lol), but it's been getting it done surprisingly well. It even works well as a back stop for those boon docking moments when nature calls lol.

I hate that we have a 200 series in the garage for a direct comparison because no matter how great the 4Runner is for it's class and money, I can't help but find myself always comparing it to the 200 and wishing that it were better lol. I know it's not fair to wish that the 4Runner were a Land Cruiser, but I find myself always wanting more room and power and a quieter cabin that isn't being tossed about by the wind. The size of the 4Runner is a win for the trails, but the other 98% of the time when I am not off-road that is a non-factor other than being nimble and easy to drive and park about town. It's a tough call between the two and I think that's why so many end up in the 460 as it's somewhat of a go-between.

I have contemplated long travel kits at length but on the 4Runner it really isn't worth it in the end for something that will see daily use. There's simply too much maintenance involved for something that isn't a dedicated rig used only part time.

The 4Runner was the smallest vehicle in our group out at BBRP and it still wasn't narrow enough to escape the trail rash, the LC would have been worse. Note the damage on the 200 series LX that was with us.

 

[r2m]

Aww, that's just pin stripping! Trail badges! I'd do that all day on my GX. What I DON'T like is to buckle any body panels.
Don't mind the stripping, but I want my body straight. My thoughts are that it's a lot cheaper (and easier) to rub out scratches than to pound out dents.

And you're right about the 200 series being too big. The 100 series my wife and I had were about the max size for the trails around here and worked great!

Rule of thumb is that most trails were originally Jeep trails, e.g. older Jeeps, narrower width, shorter wheel base, etc. With that being said, Jeeps are getting wider and longer with owners adding huge tires on offset wheels making the Jeeps anywhere from a couple of inches to almost half a foot wider than stock. And that's not to mention the JK's being 4 door rigs and the new Jeep Gladiator (pick up bed) coming out next year.

 

[BMRisko]

to run sliders you have to import Prado rocker panels and then have those painted to match.

No you don't...

 

[r2m]

No you don't...

Agreed, just need to trim the rocker panels for any rock sliders you mount. Yes you could purchase new rocker panels to replace the GX one's with the step, and people do go that route, but trimming works just fine. Look at my rig.