4-link FJ60 (1 Viewer)

[EarthX]

I have a few questions.
I’m getting close to starting a 4-link coil conversion on my '85 fj60. But a few things have stopped me.
I have a few options: I have a donor 1994 80 that I have considered taking all the suspension off of it by cutting off the mounts and reusing them on my 60????
OR, I take only the axles only and design a four link.????
OR, should I take the axles only and throw them on my leaf springs????
Does anyone have experience on how a 4-link will/could handle on the street? Is it even a good idea for a DD? That is the biggest thing stopping me. I love driving this rig all the time and don't want to sacrifice that.
My other question, is there anyone around Lake Arrowhead that would be willing to help me design and or build this project? Just any kind of help?
Any info would be greatly appreciated.

I also posted this in the hardcore section just in case.

 

[philos1]

Mace has/did a 4-link IIRC, then there's the "140" - the 1984 fj60 with 80 drivetrain and suspension that TLC did, call them and ask, they're pretty cool guys.


that's about as much as I can help, though it sounds like a cool idea...

 

[iaintscared1969]

Ask Rondog too.

 

[lowtideride]

keep the 60's axles...they are better and much better aftermarket support. I would sell the 80 series axles and use the money for a link set up.

Personally....I would just 4-link the rear. The 60series front axle set up wit the right leaf springs will flex great. The rear on the other hand needs help. This is where the 4-link would come into play.

From what I have seen on the trail most fully linked/coiled trucks behave rather funny on the trail (poor link design) it seems you can get away better with the control of just having the front SOA and the flex of the 4-link in the rear.

my 2 cents hombre...

 

[DirtyLittleSecret]

I agree with LowTide on this one. Unfortunately, I have NEVER seen a linked rig do well on the road. Ridden in one on the highway that was designed/raced, and seriously was considering whether it was safer to remain inside the cage or jump/roll for safety. On logging trails it felt secure, but on the highway it was terrifying.
In my book links are for off road only, and should not be used for a daily driver. Its amazing how complicated a suspension can be, and I for one do not expect any of us here to begin to quantify all the factors involved. (not saying somebody here could not, but just saying that I dont expect any avatar person could know it all).
If it was to be a DD and a hardcore off road rig I'd be looking at SOA. If anything, SOA the front, and link the rear with a good deal of support.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

For the ease, known capabilities, street worthiness, time, expense, the SOA wins hands down.

Now if you just want to experiment and see what happens then the links sound OK, but don't count on driving much on the street. Obviously it works to do coil and links like an 80 series, but I doubt you have the suspension experience that the guys at Toyota do.

 

[Mace]

Guess I should not have linked the rear of my 60 then..

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Guess I should not have linked the rear of my 60 then..

Maybe not, but the equation changes when you just want to see what happens. The mad scientistis/tinkerers of this world have discovered a bunch of important stuff. The original poster said, he did not want to give up the DD aspect of his cruiser. Unless he is very smart or very experienced with suspension design, he won't end up with a good street machine.

Do you drive or trailer your linked 60?

 

[Mace]

Going to be a daily driver..

And honestly, if it was not such a pain in the ass to deal with Propane on a day to day basis I would daily my fully linked 40..

 

[Mace]

There is not a single reason why a linked rig cannot work well on the street.

Toyota has great engineers (as do most automotive companies) but they are just people. there is not any mysterious nature to links. Just an understanding of their limitations/benefits. I will say that it is in your own best intrest to start reading about link design. Understanding how the rig will react with subtle alterations in the geometry is the key.

Most of the bolt on TJ lifts out there actually have horrible geometry.. But they still work on the road just fine.

 

[rondog]

road worthiness?

I agree !! That is what pushed me to link mine, can't have those jeep guys thinking their the only ones who have good link set-ups.:whoops:


ote=Mace;2790916]There is not a single reason why a linked rig cannot work well on the street.

Toyota has great engineers (as do most automotive companies) but they are just people. there is not any mysterious nature to links. Just an understanding of their limitations/benefits. I will say that it is in your own best intrest to start reading about link design. Understanding how the rig will react with subtle alterations in the geometry is the key.

Most of the bolt on TJ lifts out there actually have horrible geometry.. But they still work on the road just fine.[/quote]

 

[DirtyLittleSecret]

There is not a single reason why a linked rig cannot work well on the street.

Toyota has great engineers (as do most automotive companies) but they are just people. there is not any mysterious nature to links. Just an understanding of their limitations/benefits. I will say that it is in your own best intrest to start reading about link design. Understanding how the rig will react with subtle alterations in the geometry is the key.

Most of the bolt on TJ lifts out there actually have horrible geometry.. But they still work on the road just fine.

Mace,
I absolutely agree, and maybe I didnt state it correctly/appropriately. I simply dont feel that the average "shadetree" would be able to put together a well designed DD 4-link suspension.
I'm not saying its not possible at all, but my experience from a VERY capable fabricator who is also a formally trained mechanical engineer was not that impressive. Though it was'nt an FJ6X either!

 

[EarthX]

Thanks Mace, that's encouraging. I always figured a linked setup could do just fine on the street. My rig was once SOA, actually it was SOA for about three years. During that time was the worst years driving my 60. It just never worked that great. And it had all the goodies: hysteer, cut and turn, expensive shocks, many different spring combos. I just always wanted more, better handling, SAFER. You cant argue that a sprung over 60 is kind of unsafe on the road. In just the last year I went back to SUA and was total satisfied with it. But now its time for a change and I have the locked axles ready to go under.
I’ve been reading up on link design and suspension geometry. I don’t think it sounds to hard at all. Does anyone have experience with products from these guys: http://www.sniperfab.com/products/ ? It seems to me that using their link brackets that all are setup for proper angles would make this project pretty straight forward, no?
I’m also considering just linking the rear to start and see how that works out. Then Ill figure out the front later.
Also, why do you feel that the 60 axles are better than the 80? The way I see it: the 80’s have lockers, front and rear disc brakes, full floating rear end, and already have a truss on the bottom. To me that sounds great.

 

[lowtideride]

weaker r&p pinion, crappy hysteer support, 3 stud knucles, crappy rear locker design, more maintenance, sourcing the right aisin lock outs will be a pain if newer than a 92.....enough reasons?

I think a shadetree mechanic can do just about anything. I am true believer of that. I am sure the nay-sayers where just the same when the first SOA's where being done.

 

[EarthX]

weaker r&p pinion, crappy hysteer support, 3 stud knucles, crappy rear locker design, more maintenance, sourcing the right aisin lock outs will be a pain if newer than a 92.....enough reasons?

I think a shadetree mechanic can do just about anything. I am true believer of that. I am sure the nay-sayers where just the same when the first SOA's where being done.

Has there been a lot of r&p failures?
3 stud knuckles. Again, a lot a failures?
Rear locker problems? What is wrong with it?
I had no plans to lift it high enough to need hysteer, and it is out there if I need it at a later time. So that’s no big deal.
What do you mean by more maintenance?
And what do you mean about the aisin hubs? Why do I need those?

Thanks for your help

 

[Darkrealms]

Ask Rondog too.

Holy CR@P!
Sry havent seen that one before.

 

[Rig of Mortis]

I am sure the nay-sayers where just the same when the first SOA's where being done.

Amen.

 

[lowtideride]

Has there been a lot of r&p failures?
3 stud knuckles. Again, a lot a failures?
Rear locker problems? What is wrong with it?
I had no plans to lift it high enough to need hysteer, and it is out there if I need it at a later time. So that’s no big deal.
What do you mean by more maintenance?
And what do you mean about the aisin hubs? Why do I need those?

Thanks for your help

Yulp been on the trail with failures of the knuckle arms with 80 series. Prob a case of loose studs....

Yes there have been a few r&p failures because they are the same size of mini truck pinions and are very weak in reverse.

Rear locker seems to be the worse out of all of them, with its current design the rear axle shafts twist and become fused in the axle housing. A few case people had to cut into the axle housing itself to torch off the axle. And as for more maintenance the rears are full floaters if they have not been serviced yet they are over due.

As for the asisn hubs, the front axles use driveflanges in stead of hubs since they are an full-time 4 wheel drive. So you will have to source hubs for them is they are newer than 92 if they are axles from the 91-92 80 series 60 series Aisin hubs will bolt up just fine as I run them on my 80 as well.

Sooooo all those things are enough for me not to run them...The 60 series axles I feel are stronger. I like the 62 series the best...for a few reason and am still kicking my self for getting rid of the extra set I had.

 

[Mace]

If you think SO is unsafe you are gonna have to spend a lot of time on a link system before you are happy. Put a lot of adjustability into it.

 

[EarthX]

Yulp been on the trail with failures of the knuckle arms with 80 series. Prob a case of loose studs....

Yes there have been a few r&p failures because they are the same size of mini truck pinions and are very weak in reverse.

Rear locker seems to be the worse out of all of them, with its current design the rear axle shafts twist and become fused in the axle housing. A few case people had to cut into the axle housing itself to torch off the axle. And as for more maintenance the rears are full floaters if they have not been serviced yet they are over due.

As for the asisn hubs, the front axles use driveflanges in stead of hubs since they are an full-time 4 wheel drive. So you will have to source hubs for them is they are newer than 92 if they are axles from the 91-92 80 series 60 series Aisin hubs will bolt up just fine as I run them on my 80 as well.

Sooooo all those things are enough for me not to run them...The 60 series axles I feel are stronger. I like the 62 series the best...for a few reason and am still kicking my self for getting rid of the extra set I had.

Well darn it. Now your making me second guess the swap.
Can I use either of the lockers from the 80 and them in my 60 axles?