3B that won't idle...any suggestions?

[skinny]

Hey Guys,

Just curious if anyone out there has experienced the problem that I currently have on my 84 BJ-60. Here goes:

- Thursday morning on the way to work my Bj-60 started hesitating. I would rev it up and it appeared to be ok, I thought it may have had something to do with the cold.
- Thursday evening when I went to drive it home it started actiung up again, but only under load. Idle was fine, so I pulled over to let it warm up a bit to see if that help (it has been extremely cold here the Ottawa area the last week or so).
- So I tried again after it warmed up a little and still the same porblem, it would "bog down when I would try to accelerate???
- I pulled over again thinking maybe just warm it up a little more, it started ot get worse, was idling extremely rough then started to cut. I would start it up again and it would cut out again after a minute of idling really rough. When it was running if I tried to press on the gas peddle (or what ever the diesel term might be )the truck would shut down. I also tried adding more anti-gel but it didn't help.
- after about an hour of this finally realized I needed a tow, I relly hate having a landcruiser towed . While I was waiting for a tow I continued to try and keep it running as I mentioned it was extremely cold but it got worse to a point where it would fire up and then shut down right away.
- Anyway after I got it towed, I had to get my buddy to come over and push it into my garage with his 62 and I left it there to thaw out incase something was frozen. I also changed the fuel filter incase that had anything to do with it.
- So now I am in the same situation as I was before the tow. I have primed the engine, bleed any air out and it still won't stay running, in fact it appears to be worse. If I start the engine and keep the primer open and give it a pump when it starts to sound like it is about to cut out then I can keep it running. Talk about a manual fuel pump .

Sorry for the long story I just want to make sure I have all of the details. Anyway if any one has any suggestions I would appreciate it as my knowledge about diesels is very limited. Before anyone asks the injectors were redone about 30K kms ago and I think the fuel pump may have been doen about the same time, but I have to check the PO notes in the manuals. There also appears to be no leaks in my fuel system as I just wen through that fun this summer with my leaky tank.

Thanks,
Todd

 

[Radd Cruisers]

Sounds like a problem I had not long ago, rusted through hard line sucking air.

Quick way to eliminate this as a cause is get a little jug of fuel and put it under the hood and hook up a fuel line direct to the pump.


Rob

 

[skinny]

Great thanks. I will give that a try tonight when I get home. When I had my tank redone this summer I replaced one of the steel lines so there is a possibility that one of the others has corroded as well. I did do a quick inspection and the fact that when I primed it it appeared to keep it's pressure as the plunger was extremely difficult to push back in lead me away from the lines being an issue.

 

[waaz]

Hello
Also check the low oil pressure switch, it may be sticking causing the EDIC to shut the engine down.
waaz

 

[cruiser_guy]

The poor idling is often a sign of a bad diaphragm in the injection pump. If you have the OEM manuals you can find it in there (pg. FU-71 in my copy). It is replaceable while the pump is on the truck if you have small fingers and are somewhat handy.
If your lines check out fine or if there was no air in them this might be a thing to do.
If the EDIC shuts the engine down it's quick and doesn't hesitate or wait, it's just as if you shut it down normally.

 

[Greg_B]

Do what Radd says first: It will narrow down the issue real quick. If it runs okay you know everything from the container to the injectors is ok...then start looking for the culprit in your soft and hard lines to the tank. Did they/you replace the fuel supply cap/pipe going into the tank when it was redone. The supply pipe coming up and to the rubber line from the tank has a habit of rusting out on the 60 tanks.

gb

 

[skinny]

Well I did what Radd suggested with the container of fuel and it still won't run, unless I keep primimg as before.

Anyway so it looks like the problem is on the pump side, which makes matters more complicated. It would have been much easier replacig lines.

I will have a look at the manual to see what sort of a challenge I am in for with replacing the diaphram, as Cruiser_guy has suggested. I will give that a go and if I still have an issue I guess it is mechanic time.

Thanks guys I will keep you posted as to what it is when I figure it out or a mechanic does.

 

[lumpy70]

If you are REALLY sure you have enough oil, try disconnecting the EDIC arm and see what happens. I had a bad connection on my oil pressure sender and as a result the EDIC ket trying to shut it down.

HTH,
Craig.

 

[Greg_B]

I find it strange that you can keep it running when you use the manual primer.

Yes, #1 is to ensure there is oil, then pop the EDIC and eliminate that as the problem as Lumpy suggests. #2 is to make sure it has air. Is the air filter plugged? Simply to eliminate any air restriction issues make sure the rubber pipe from the air can to the intake manifold is clear. With that eliminated try Radds suggestion again. Use a clear line from your mini tank of fuel (4l oil jug works good and has enough volume to let it run a while) to the inlet side of the fuel pump to ensure you truely have no air in the feed side. Use some clear tubing from your bleeder on the filter to another clear container, and prime away till both run with no bubbles (make sure the bleeder is on the outlet side of the filter...most of the 3B's I've seen have it on the inlet side, which makes no sense at all...bleeder on the outlet side ensures the filter is full). Then run the truck again. The clear tubing will confirm 100% which side the problem is on.

If it has oil, the EDIC is not trying to shut it down, it is getting air, and there are no bubbles seen in the clear line then I would suggest changing the fuel filter again (lubing up the rubber gasket) and also change the primer pump/spring/valve/copper gasket to the metal Bosch primer (though when closed even a leaky primer pump should not be allowing air in the system).

I have been going through somewhat the same issue the last week with my BJ60, and have narrowed the issue to the fuel feed pipe from the tank. I was given some clear line from an injection shop that says food and beverage grade tubing with the numbers G900 038 050 on it. They have had it on thier test bench for years and other then slight hardening, it has served well. I woud not run it on my truck forever, however for your testing purposes it will do fine. I did not use this tubing as the ID was too large. Revy or Home depot has this tubing I think. I also was given some clear PVC tubing from a HD truck repair shop for trouble shooting problems like this. Again, with the caveat do not leave on the truck for a long time...

I've never had a diaphram go on me, however I always have understood the main symptom to be a very high idle and lots of smoke...not difficulty running?

hth's

gb

 

[lumpy70]

Once you've eliminated the the possibility of the EDIC doing the funky chicken because of a bad connection or low oil, and you're sure you are not getting air into the system, I would move onto the diaphram. I've never don it but I've been told that the symptoms are very much like what you are going thru.

Lowenbrau compares replacing the diaphram to something like trying to bend your wrist over to the point where you can touch the backside of your arm while resting it on a sharp fork. A magnetic pick-up tool is recommended for when you drop the teeny tiny screw.

Craig.

 

[cruiser_guy]

I've had the diaphragm fail on my truck and I had to keep feathering the fuel when the truck was idling otherwise it would quit. Replaced the diapragm and all was well. Apparently the leather tends to develop a hole over time thus affecting idle.
I like Lowenbrau's description of replacing the diapragm. It's a very uncomfortable job.

 

[Greg_B]

I've had the diaphragm fail on my truck and I had to keep feathering the fuel when the truck was idling otherwise it would quit. Replaced the diapragm and all was well. Apparently the leather tends to develop a hole over time thus affecting idle.
I like Lowenbrau's description of replacing the diapragm. It's a very uncomfortable job.

Yes, the leather should be oiled with the prescribed oil at the prescribed times to ensure leather health...much to the chagrin of the neets...

Take the EDIC motor off it's mount will give you easier access to the back area.

Interesting Charles, thanks.

gb

 

[waaz]

hello
If oil is ok, check your engine grounds. The EDIC needs a good ground to work.
Yes fuel will still get up to the injecters when using the manual primer when the EDIC is in the stop position.
waaz

 

[Deny]

I overreved my injection pump this august, and although my problems were a bit different( hard to start but run good till it didn't start at all) I want to tell you if you have to change the pump, it is an intimidating, but very easy job. I took my truck to a local shop and they wanted 300 for pump removal, 1500 for pump rebuild, 300 for pump install, and 300 for adjustment. I said screw that, and undid the 3 bolts, took off the pump in less than an hour and had a rebuilder clean it up for 500 (took him a while cause he was busy)then installed it in about an hour. I was super nervous about taking it off, but after doing it it is very easy, so before you take your truck to a mechanic, do it your self to save a lot of money. I do'nt know if the pump is your problem, but I would try all the easier stuff first, and if its not that, then try pump, as it is the heart of the diesel, and it's always reasuring knowing my pump is nice and clean and tuned up by a professional.
Cheers,
Deny

 

[skinny]

Well my truck is alive again. I really don't know what did it however.? I had been sick the last few days so I haven't looked at but it was in my garage with the heat on (the wife is goign to kick my but when the hydro bill comes in on that one ). Maybe it got a good thorough thaw???

Anyway tonight I was feelling better and here is what I did:
I drained my water separator ( I think that what it is called)
Also I disconnected all of my lines around the pump to see if I had any blockages. Some one in my local club had suggested that he has seen the screen on the inlet to the primer pump plugged up. Anyway way after checking all of the lines and removing the fuel filter every thing looked very clean which is a good thing. So I put everything back together again, primed and bleed the fuel system and she started and stayed running no problem. I let it idel at 1000 rmp for about 45 miutes and took it for an hour long drive and all appears to be well???

So I have no idea what my issue was to begin with. The only thing I can think of is that I had a blockage that was dislodged when I removed the lines or somehting was frozen real good and need a couple of days of heat to thaw????

Anyway thanks guys for all of your suggestions now I have to move on to my other issues, electrical, rear main leak, body work, 5th gear popping out and so on.... Oh well those can wait for another day the beast is running again for now

 

[Greg_B]

Well my truck is alive again. I really don't know what did it however.? I had been sick the last few days so I haven't looked at but it was in my garage with the heat on (the wife is goign to kick my but when the hydro bill comes in on that one ). Maybe it got a good thorough thaw???

What was the temp outside when you had your problem skinny? Both your's and Stiffler's both went in the garage and the problem seems to have gone away...

Fuel gelling?

Perhaps consider running an anti gel conditioner...

gb

 

[skinny]

It was about -25 celcius when I had the problem, dipping down to minus -35 to -40 overnight and I don't plug my truck in. I also run Anti gel in the winter, but maybe I need to swicth brands? Any suggestions?

 

[Greg_B]

It was about -25 celcius when I had the problem, dipping down to minus -35 to -40 overnight and I don't plug my truck in. I also run Anti gel in the winter, but maybe I need to swicth brands? Any suggestions?

The cold weather folks would have a better idea then I. On the wet coast we do not have to typically deal with this issue. All the fuel stations should be well into running winter fuel, however anything you can do to help...

I know some folks in Calgary are running Howes. Dunno if they are using anything else to help in the winter months. A HD truck repair shop in the area that has tried a variety of products swears by this: http://www.ezoil.com/dieselaid.html

hth's

gb