3-link or SOA in front?

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You are not going to kill your springs if you build them right. Mine felxes very well using stock springs and wheels and flexes as well as a 55 SOA can... My rig also weight about 5300 lbs empty so heavy.. Here is the best info I have about spring packs... I have put a lot of thought into this. I personally would not buy OME just to spring it over, I would build a stock pack, even if it was hammered. But that is just my $.02...
Here is the best info I have about leafs and spring packs for SOA rigs. I think a wagon is a different story because they are heavier but you can kill a set of springs SOA very quickly in a wagon from experience. I imagine wheeling hard SOA with big tires on a 40 has the same effect.

Go to post 40 and keep reading. It is covered in depth. I run 2 add a leafs in the rear and one up front.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=410514&page=2
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Thanks for the reference, I will research it.

Just for the record, I didn't buy the OME springs specifically for the springover. I originally was going SUA, and bought these and some other items before I realized I might want to push the envelope a bit more. So I've got brand new Dakars sitting in my garage and rather than lose $$ trying to sell them again, I thought it might be a good way to get a 'flexy' high quality spring for my front SOA.
 
truggier said:
I thought it might be a good way to get a 'flexy' high quality spring for my front SOA.
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I should elaborate...by 'flexy' I mean what will result after removing the bottom two leafs from the front Dakars and breaking them in. Cruiseroutfit does this regularly with good results.
 
Yes I am very familar with CruiserOutfit's truck and it does work very well. Should ride and flex well as well once lowered. Another good option which wagoneer5 and some other guys have done is having your OME dearched. That would work very well IMO and would save you from having to take apart again. All the benefits of OME but in a good SOA position. It will be a little wafy and still quite high until you get all the right leaves in so this is where dearching also has it beat versus months of an unstable rig until they settle. I would still probably remove 1 or 2 of the smallest leaves and run it that way permanently because OME (especially in the rear) is a very thick and beefy spring pack. Dearching is very simple, disassemble the packs and take to a spring shop, they put each leaf into a press and flatten it out. I'd shoot for something that looks sort of like my rear pack in the photos of the link I posted... Approx maybe 4" total of arch/ spring height. As it settles it should come in nice and flat... You might try PM'ing Medusa or Wngrog, these guys run SOA leafs in the front and 3 or 4 link in the rear for their wheeling rigs. I think they are much more flexible in the rear if I remember correctly... AKA the rears doing all the work..
 
Grog is now linked front and rear.

Medusa (jack) is still "with leaves"

;)
 
woody said:
normal_Dscn1979.jpg


Mine is currently on FJ55 rears....but is likely gonna switch this winter...not sure what yet, but I want a spring pack with an offset center pin and a hair longer...perhaps a minitruck rear ....

Flex nice, and it's balanced. BALANCED is the hard part, flex is easy.....just takes lots of experiment time, and luck....
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Btw Woody, thanks for the pic. Awesome...I hope my ride flexes as well. How does yours ride on the street?
 
Mace, thanks for all of the advice. I guess it's fair to say that if properly done a 4-link rear and 3-link front with panhard will behave just fine on the street? What's the average lift for this type of setup? The rear you can dial in to just about whatever you want, but not sure about the front.
 
dieselcruiserhead said:
You might try PM'ing Medusa or Wngrog, these guys run SOA leafs in the front and 3 or 4 link in the rear for their wheeling rigs. I think they are much more flexible in the rear if I remember correctly... AKA the rears doing all the work..
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dieselcruiserhead, that's some writeup you did. Looks like alot of heart and soul went into that project. Thanks for pointing me to it.

The quoted statement above bothered me a bit. Is this to say that a front SOA and rear 4-link is not 'balanced'?
 
Yes it is safe to say a properly done linked suspension will behave just fine on the street.

Lift is whatever you want. My 40 is lifted about 4" coilovers front and coils rear..



The issue that you are hunting is one of opinion.. Woody likes both the front and rear to flex equally. I agree with him. However there are others that like to set up the linked portion soft and let it do all the work. They use the leaves to make the truck more stable.
 
truggier said:
dieselcruiserhead, that's some writeup you did. Looks like alot of heart and soul went into that project. Thanks for pointing me to it.

The quoted statement above bothered me a bit. Is this to say that a front SOA and rear 4-link is not 'balanced'?
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I am pretty simple when it comes to these fancy suspensions and don't know much about them, just what I have seen... I would 'imagine' a 3 or 4 link in the rear would be a lot flexier than leaves up front - not sure. I guess just take all of that into consideration when building... You might try posting on pirate or in the hardcore corner to get some good responses on this, FWIW. Sounds like a neat project regardless...
 
street, mine is great...handling is good, ride is excellent...it DOES sway in the corners, but not excessively.

http://gallery.ih8mud.com/thumbnails.php?album=1 for more poser pics of mine... 14"+ stroke Bilsteins. search for the "and it starts" thread in hardcore for more pics of the link work...
 
Update on this thread:

I had an extended conversation with Proffitt's yesterday. Two statements of theirs have convinced me to stay SOA in front (rather than 3-link):

1) "If I had to swerve sharply at highway speeds to try to avoid an accident, I wouldn't want to be in a fully linked vehicle"

and

2) "3-link with panhard in front won't give that much more bang for your buck in terms of articulation unless you go full hydro steering"

Therefore it seems that the cutoff between a safe highway vehicle and a real off road monster is going linked in the rear but SOA up front. To be fully linked and have your rig be a highway driver implies you like to live a little more dangerously. When a fully linked rig really leans in a sharp turn, although it compresses the springs on the side your're turning into, there's essentially nothing limiting how far the other side comes up. This results in the entire vehicle raising up. Leaf packs obviously don't allow this.

I'm sure I won't be disappointed by the capabilities of my rig with a linked rear and SOA front.
 
I doubt you would be dissapointed,

But I disagree with almost every point you have there....
 
truggier said:
2) "3-link with panhard in front won't give that much more bang for your buck in terms of articulation unless you go full hydro steering"
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I should elaborate on the above point. Proffitt's said that 3-link most definitely would articulate more than SOA without hydro steering, but not a ton more...and you wouldn't see the full benefit from going 3-link without going hydro.
 
if the point was pure articulation, then I'll agree...

but the added control of the link suspension, the complete lack of axle wrap, and the higher/consistent roll center will far outperform a SOA setup. The REAL benefits will be seen on steep climbs (when you could easily cinch the front down) or on sidehill/cambers.

I guess it brings the question to why SO many comp rigs run 3-links....their benefit is not solely from the full hydro.
 
1) I have been in a panic stop swerving to avoid hitting a car at about 55 mph in my 3 linked front cruiser.

It panic stops very well.

Again, there is NO reason that a properly linked suspension will behave WOSE than a leaf sprun suspension. In fact, even most modern leaf sprung vehicles have sway bars to maintain cornering ability...

2) How much articulation do you want? I max out my 16" travel coilovers with a true 3 link and a panhard.. My rig flexes much better with the links than it ever did with the leaves..

AND is much more stable...
 
Mace said:
1)

AND is much more stable...
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It is 10' wide with STIFF coils on the front too :D

That said, Mace and RockTaxi as well as LanzG all wheeling buddies of mine run 3 links in the front and I see nothing to complain about with handling or flex.
 
wngrog said:
It is 10' wide with STIFF coils on the front too :D

That said, Mace and RockTaxi as well as LanzG all wheeling buddies of mine run 3 links in the front and I see nothing to complain about with handling or flex.
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Not quite that wide but close ;)

And the stiff coils are going to be swapped out in about 15 mins..
 
Mace said:
Not quite that wide but close ;)

And the stiff coils are going to be swapped out in about 15 mins..
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What weight did you go with?

I just upped the weight on my rear ones 20# per side and went from a 12" spring to a 14" spring.

I am now 110/110 in the rear.

I am thinking about ordering (2) 130's to stick back there for when I load it down with the entire family.
 
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