2H TDC question.

[Crelok]

hey,just need to know which mark for tdc on my hj60 year 86...

the single or the double line,????

 

[watrob]

Single mark, also the first two rockers (intake & exhaust) over piston 1 will be level and loose. If you rotate the engine once the rockers on piston 6 will be level and loose.

The double line is BTD which set against your IP pump for timing.

 

[Crelok]

kinda understand what ya say,im taking my timing/oil casing off to replace housing which my relief valve is on.so if i line it up on the single just to do this,remove gears etc,i should be ok?

i mean,i dont need to take rocker cover off do i?

 

[watrob]

If its set to TDC on piston 1 then all the marking of the gears will line up, if you remove the cover and there not then you have piston 6 TDC. Remember you are taking off the harmonic balancer, once removed how are you going to turn the engine over, you are going to get confused.

Take the rocker cover off and do it right, it will make putting it back together a lot easier and do not move the IP pump gear, one tooth out and you will have problems. Clean the gears first, check the marks all line up on all gears, take a photo and then remove the gears, do not rotate the engine crank, the cam shaft or any other shafts.

And why are you changing the casing? why not just put the longer relief valve in if you have to high oil pressure? this is the standard fix?

 

[Crelok]

cause it is stuck in there very well,like impossible to get out.tried all the ideas to no avail.
just thought i could take an injector out and put a wire in there to see when the piston reached its high point etc,to tdc...but that didnt work,so i will take the cover off and go with your idea.
ty

two rockers (intake & exhaust) over piston 1 will be level and loose...<<<<<this is what i want yes.??

 

[watrob]

cause it is stuck in there very well,like impossible to get out.tried all the ideas to no avail.
just thought i could take an injector out and put a wire in there to see when the piston reached its high point etc,to tdc...but that didnt work,so i will take the cover off and go with your idea.
ty

two rockers (intake & exhaust) over piston 1 will be level and loose...<<<<<this is what i want yes.??

YES and the harmonic balancer single groove to TDC.

So you have removed the bolt and spring which has left the relief piston in there? have you turned over the engine to see if it will blow out, I know its a messy way to do it but these things don't totally jam in there. And I don't mean starting the engine and revving the hell out of it?

 

[Crelok]

um lol,well....i thank you for your help,,appreciate it alot....long story short.done everything<<<<<<....my oil filter blew apart on driveway,,,YES it is stuck in there,very rare i know this....but it has.....i dont agree with your thought on rev it till it comes out....??????i have no oil in car,no relief valve(working) in car,,,,i will definatly not be reving nothing....unless i wan`t a boat moring....haha....

cheers.
jas

 

[watrob]

um lol,well....i thank you for your help,,appreciate it alot....long story short.done everything<<<<<<....my oil filter blew apart on driveway,,,YES it is stuck in there,very rare i know this....but it has.....i dont agree with your thought on rev it till it comes out....??????i have no oil in car,no relief valve(working) in car,,,,i will definatly not be reving nothing....unless i wan`t a boat moring....haha....

cheers.
jas

Did not stay rev the car, said turn the motor over, there a difference, that why I said "and I don't mean starting the engine and revving the hell out of it" also you did not tell us the oil filter blew apart and there is no oil in the engine.

Also just turning the engine over pulsates the oil pressure and the value will move to the surface, you should give more detail.

Anyway make sure you have TDC on piston one before you start removing gears?

 

[Crelok]

though i appreciate your response alot,i didnt need to give more info,cause i only asked for help for the tdc-and tdc only.

i have another thread that is to do with everything else.

so i didn`t need to give any detail about anything else at all.
i only responded to your question,that is all.
but thanks again.will get on it tomoz.

 

[Crelok]

whats the best tool to use on the 2H to hold the crank while undoing the crank nut?

 

[lostmarbles]

If its set to TDC on piston 1 then all the marking of the gears will line up, if you remove the cover and there not then you have piston 6 TDC.....

Since we're in argumentative moods...

I don't think all the markings line up every time No.1 piston is at TDC (and not even every time No.1 is at TDC on a compression stroke either).

I believe the timing gear markings all line up very rarely (ie. every XX crank revolutions).

(But then when you do get the gear markings lined up (if you were ever patient enough to try and achieve this by turning the crankshaft ... which is extremely doubtful) - you're probably right in saying No.1 piston is at TDC on a compression stroke.)

whats the best tool to use on the 2H to hold the crank while undoing the crank nut?

I'd prefer to try an use "impact" to loosen the nut (taking advantage of the flywheel weight).

ie. Hit the end of your socket bar with a heavy soft-headed hammer.

 

[kim]

The Crank, Cam and injection pump line up to match the FSM but the idler gears never will. It's like Lostmarbles said, they will about as frequently as your numbers are drawn in the lottery.

 

[Crelok]

thanks for reply`s,
so.lol....seems weird how answers are very different,so..i understand what you say.and i found this/

so other than doing this to the best of my power.....
the chance of the gears all lining up are slim you say?

so if i do this im ok to take casing off and take gears out.?????

i dont have access to compressor so it will be with a pulley holder etc.

 

[lostmarbles]

Yes that's a good way of ensuring No.1 piston is at TDC on a compression stroke.

And with 99% certainty you'll find the cog markings NOT ALL ALIGNED (with the idler markings being the "odd men out") when you take the timing cover off.

But when you put it back together, you do align all the markings.

Here they are aligned on my B engine (to show what were talking about):

 

[Crelok]

thanks lostmarbles....cheers.,

got a mate comnig over with air tool....so should all be ok..

 

[watrob]

thanks for reply`s,
so.lol....seems weird how answers are very different,so..i understand what you say.and i found this/View attachment 895154
so other than doing this to the best of my power.....
the chance of the gears all lining up are slim you say?

so if i do this im ok to take casing off and take gears out.?????

i dont have access to compressor so it will be with a pulley holder etc.

There only two revolution of the crank between TDC on piston 1 and piston 6, so that is why I said take the rocker cover off, cannot go wrong that way. Once you get the harmonic balancer off and then the gear cover you will understand. Also the image from lostmarbles is for a B motors the 2H you will find the IP pump is on the other side, down load the engine manual as it shows the gear setup quite clearly.

 

[Crelok]

i got the gears pdf,all good.

i did it,and the back rockers are tight,while the first front is tight and the second front is loose....
and on mark....pretty good for me,unless told different.

 

[watrob]

i got the gears pdf,all good.

i did it,and the back rockers are tight,while the first front is tight and the second front is loose....
and on mark....pretty good for me,unless told different.

Are the two rockers on piston 1(intake & exhaust) both level and there should be just a little movement up & down when you shake them with your hand. On piston 6 one of the rockers will be in downward movement and be very tight. If so you are in business. The trick now is don't turn the crank.

PS. When get the gear cover off take a photo for reference and mark the gears where they line up with dot of white paint?

 

[Crelok]

will be painting them for sure.
and nah,the first is not moving(maybe need adjusting)?......and second is little movement as it should be,maybe another couple rotations and try again.....hmmm....dunno.

 

[blis]

will be painting them for sure.
and nah,the first is not moving(maybe need adjusting)?......and second is little movement as it should be,maybe another couple rotations and try again.....hmmm....dunno.

If theyre not moving you definitely need to adjust your valve clearances