1st Tme: lessons learned : Questions

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soggy60

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Well, finally did it - spray painted with auto paint on auto stuff ( I've done house painting,,,,)

On my FJ60, color is the 'stock' purpely-blue-grey metallic....
( my luck, a tough type of paint for a virgin . . .)

Lesson #1 : Keep my day job :D

Lesson #2 : MAE type paint stinks (smells bad), not that sweet lacquer smell...( yes, I used a respirator; and know how to use...)

Lesson #3 : doors are better painted laying dowm, flat, rather than hanging. That way runs may not be as visible.

Question : What can I do: just wait a week or so for paint to get hard: sand & repaint ?

Lesson #3 surface prep is important and the prepped surface can be deceiving.
Multiple layers of high build up primer w/ 600 grit sanding 'tween coats; final with 800; just as smooth as glass . . .

Have a few places where something leached through the primer & caused the paint to "draw" away fom a spot ( have a half-dozen 'dots' where I can see the primer).

Question: What do I do about this ?

Last Question (for now) : Orange Peel is cause by what poor technique (note the presumption of my technique as the cause)

Last Lesson : It's fun to try something new !

Thanks for any guidance / wisdom / help

Pete
 
The "draw away" is called fisheye and us caused by an unclean surface, usually from oil or wax on the surface. To avoid this you would need to use a solvent to degrease everything before, during, after any bodywork,priming, or painting. Wait for paint to harden, sand with fine sand paper and repaint.

Degreasing/dewaxing is probably the most important prep work in auto painting.

Orange peel is caused by the thinner being too fast or paint not being thinned enough prior to spraying, the paint dries fast as it comes out of the sprayer and doesn't go on smooth. Sand and repaint using a slower thinner.

Flat surfaces, as you have found, are easiest to get smooth with paint..

Unfortunately the metalic paints are the hardest to get right because of the way the flake lays when the paint dries, and you have to keep the flake suspended in the gun as you go. Spot painting usually looks like crap, painting full panels is the way to go.

If you used a hardening agent (catalyst) then the paint should be dry enough to start sanding.

Keep your day job but don't give up on painting. Find some other projects to paint and try some less difficult colors/ paint types. Practice, practice, practice.
 
Thanks & more questions

Thanks for the input so far....

"Fisheye", after sanding, what do I 'degrease' with ? methanol ? Lacquer thinner ?


"Orange Peel" : didn't use any thinner, just the paint & 4:1 'hardener'.
might it be the spray gun was too coarse ? ( paint drops too big ? )

. . . Tuning the gun was, I feel, easier said than done.

. . . Instructions said set air pressure to 20 lbs at "input".

. . .OK, inline pressure reg set to 20;
. . . . . just a wisp of paint (on test board)
. . . . . . adjusting air feed,pattern and mix didn't do much.

Nudge regulator...step wise,,,,and mild adjustments of air/pattern/mix
. . . seemed like 40 lbs gave a pattern closer to that I read in autobody101.com..

. . .So, I wonder if maybe the 'drop size' was too big
. . . . combined with passing ( left to right, and back) speed
. . . . .overlap
. . . . . could cause this small lumpiness in the surface.

Time for more reading,,,,
 
I probably should have used the term "reducer" rather than "thinner" but either way you should have mixed the paint with a reducer and then added hardener. Could be the components you used are different than what I am used to. Use a wax/grease remover solvent that you buy at the paint store (ask the counter guy) don't use a thnner. Degreasing should really be done first before sanding, just that sometimes it needs to be done as bodywork progresses too.
and yeah a tack rag before painting would probably help too.
 
Not having a oil trap on your compressor can be a good source for fisheyes as well..
 
Wally are you a Professional Painter? Couldn't help but notice you're in Denver.

Im looking to paint my 60, I haven't figured out if I'll do it myself, or have someone do it.

I don't have any experience, but I am thinking of doing what you did soggy60 and teach myself.

Where did you do it? That's another thing I don't have - a garage big enough to tackle a paint job.
 
I have a large (25 gal tank) diaphragm pump,,,'oil less' ( at least relative to the piston pumps).

Had inline moisture trap (probably silica gel), but no oil trap ( didn't think one was needed for the type of compressor)

Painting done in garage; 2 car garage with just enough room for one car (wifes GX470) w/ room to open doors.
Wife, & her rig, out of town.

Square yeard of newspaper scotched taped everywhere :-)

Dust fallout (fall on ) was minimal...

5280 - ya gotta do it man ! Although the 'first time' job does look like a beginners job, there's places here & there where the finish is darn near as good as a new car ! ( ya, there's a few that looks like grandma's ass,,,,saggy / wrinkly) Sandpaper will help (the paint job, not grandma's . . .)

I'm looking forward to my next 'garage time'...'tween now & then, back to paint store for advice on 'degreaser' and more primer....

Oh, BTW, interrestingly enough, the 'runs' are more visible than can be felt....ya see it very well, but don't really feel it (sliding finger over 'run') like you might on , say, house paint....a lot of the 'visible' run is a pattern in the metal flake !

That's why next time I do the doors ( or the hood) , I'll do 'em laying down ( the doors, not me); first time, I had 'em haning in just about 'on the truck' position; except higher so I could paint the bottom....

Go Hawk, you'll enjoy it !
 
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News paper is the worst thing you can possibly use for masking. Full of lint, exacerbated by paint products. Go to home depot if you don't have a local auto paint shop for some real masking paper. Orange peel can also come from painting "dry". Practice makes perfect....Now that you have fisheyes and runs, yep, sanding and respray is your only option.
 
Thatnks for the encouragement Soggy! I am leaning more and more towards doing it Me own self.

Tell me this - are the factory toyota colors a single application? - (no clear coat)?

I was reading on Autobody 101.com that you can get almost any paint you want "put into" a rattlecan at most paint shops. If I could buy a bunch of toyota factory paint in Rattlecan I think I would go for it that way, even though it may take a long time to get applied.

I do have a friend who said he's lend me his spray gun.....
 
Texx: The newspaper was on the walls & cabinets of the garage....
Used strong fan (not leaf blower) to dust out the garage....
had vent fan running while hangng doors in middle of garage
( purpose of all this: minimize airborne dust
( minimize resuspension

5280: I think some of the Factory paint jobs are 2 stage; many years later, you can see the 'clear coat' film and flake...
A good autobody paint shop can 'mix' just about any color into a one stage or two stage paint.....
While at the paint store, I asked which ( 1 or 2 stage) is best for a beginner....
Got as many different answers as there we folks in the store....

I took off fuel filler door and carried inside paint store; they put under their super-dooper Wamadyne 2000 geeeezmo and bingo,,,,color is really really close !

The 'depth' of the shine on the 'better areas' doesn't seem as 'deep' as a 2 stage; but that could be tied back to me....don't know yet....but I can see two fingers (reflection from surface) a foot away

As for rattle cans.....( think : newer AFLAC commercials, the goat) Naaa, Naaa, Naaa....Big Boy Time ....chit man, I'm almost 60 yr old, 'bout time I dropped the rattle . . . . before I end up in diapers again :-)
In reality, I'm sure rattle can has its value ( large area touch up); if you're thinking of the whole truck ( I am, and am practicing on the doors), I can't imagine the number of cans needed, let alone the constant shaking....I've got better things to do with that motion ( he says while thinking of the ...Cheerleader....thread )
 
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Yeah, You're probably right.

I think i can get ahold of the Factory Tan color spec. that mine is already painted. Yes i am definately painting the whole thing minus the engine bay anf the door Jambs, and I do have access to a gun. I could probably practice on my old tailgate as well.

I think a single stage is what i want as it just sounds less complicated. Now i need a Place and a compressor. How big of a Compressor do i realistically need to paint?
 
If you're using HVLP gun, you can probably get by with a horse and a half. A standard suction gun is going to need closer to 5hp. I'm not an hvlp fan, but that's just because I grew up on the old school binks. HVLP is the way to go if I was going to start again today. Lots less paint in the air, and lots less paint use.
 
5280Hawk
No, I'm not a pro, i just took up doing it and taught myself. I can do OK on my own stuff, never made any money doing it for others. I paint in my garage and hope the Code Inspector isn't driving through the neighborhood at the time. I have a big compressor 5HP 60 Gal. but I've done it with small compressors too. I've found that having a big spraygun and a touchup gun makes life easier.
having a garage large enough to be able to paint does too.

Soggy
BTW You don't need to sand all of the paint off, just sand out the fisheye and the orange peel and making sure you have enough scuff for the next paint to grab. Tack it off, add/clear the oil/water separator and give it another go. I've had orange peel show up as i was painting and I added more reducer to the paint and kept on going. Are you using a pressure regulator at the gun or just the one at the compressor? You should have one at the gun or you'll have pressure drop through the hose, plus it is easier to adjust on the fly when you have it at the gun.

Learning to paint has been one of the most rewarding skills that I have taught myself to do. That is until I got a metal lathe and learned to use it.
 
Pressure Regulator:

One on the compressor; set to 80 psig.
25 ft later, water remover, another regulator set to 40 lbs
(setting was trial & error, started at 20 lbs; next time, may back down to 30, 35)
15 ft hose to HVLP gun. I can easily move reulator to 'air input' of gun . . .Maybe I should ?

Thanks for info about tending to O peel.

As for fisheye. . . .
Oh, I received the doors painted.....some weird violet /brandy wine metallic....
was sun burned & ugly anyway....
...(back to fish) sand down to the ugly color, wipe with lacquer thinner ? rubbing alcohol ? (what to cut the oil / grease / whatever).

'found evidence' that O peel may be due to too much paint feed; need to lean out a tad. "inside" of door area (not 'painted') had , to me, large 'thick' dots of paint in the 'overspray' region....too much material feed can cause O peel too, right ?


Thanks

( will be off line for a while: out-of-town....)
 
Pete, What kind of paint are you using?

As for fisheye. . . .
Oh, I received the doors painted.....some weird violet /brandy wine metallic....
was sun burned & ugly anyway....
...(back to fish) sand down to the ugly color, wipe with lacquer thinner ? rubbing alcohol ? (what to cut the oil / grease / whatever).
Click to expand...

Automotive paint stores sell "wax & grease remover". It is very cheap. Last time I bought some it was under $10 for a gallon. goes a long ways. Smells like enamel reducer and has an oily appearance, but works well. Laquer thinner works ok most the time, but it can penetrate the primer.
 
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