1HZ Starter Issues

[Mgriz]

Hello there, I'm an American living in Maputo, Mozambique and I've got a 94 HZJ77 that is currently sidelined with a bum starter.

Here is a pic for good measure. It just so happens it is from the last time this truck left me stranded, luckily this time I was much closer to home...

About a week ago I got a few hundred feet from my driveway and noticed that the starter was still running (sounded like a vacuum cleaner about to explode). When I tried to shut it down it kept cranking the engine, after cycling the ignition back and forth a few times it finally stopped. However, now it wouldn't start again... I poked around the starter and hit one of the rubber plugs on the motor casing, it let a little smoke out so I poked it again, it fell off and some flames licked out of the opening, catching me by surprise.

So I towed the truck back to my place and removed the starter. The solenoid was stuck out but after pushing it in a little it snapped back to the retracted position. I will put power to it tomorrow to test it out but based on the flames I saw I'm expecting it to be toast. It is going to be a challenge here getting a replacement that doesn't cost an arm and a leg so I'm trying to weigh my options.

I might be able to find a replacement in town but I expect it will be very expensive as is usually the case here. Having this one rebuilt might be an option but it is very difficult to find competent services here and I don't really want to have to rely on that. I came across this thread that talks about using a starter from a Dodge Cummins diesel for parts which I could easily have shipped over from the states. This looks like it would be the cheapest option (but not the fastest), however I can't find any confirmation that it will definitely work. My HZJ is 24v and all the literature on the dodge starter says it is 12v. Does anyone know if the motor and solenoid are indeed the same and that they would work fine with 24v (i.e. it is overbuilt for 12v)? Any other obvious options I'm not thinking of?

Thanks!

 

[fossilcruiser]

There are lots of 70s in South Africa and Zambia (not so much in TZ), so wouldn't you be able to get parts from there?

Best of luck.


...via IH8MUD app

 

[Mgriz]

You would think so but I had a hell of a time finding rod ends in ZA a few months ago. Toyota had to order them in from Japan and I must have gone to 6 different parts stores and none of them had any. I ended up actually finding them here in Maputo. I don't really understand it because as you point out there are tons of 70s in South Africa and very few in Moz. Most of the safari lodges around Kruger Park use them so someone has got to have parts, I just haven't been able to locate them. And believe it or not it's actually much easier to get stuff shipped from the states, if only it was available.

 

[1tontoy]

Dumb question: How to tell if the 1HZ starter is 12v or 24v? I ask because I think I have a used 24v 1HZ starter that I could send you. In fact, I vaguely recall buying the starter from someone in northern Africa. My truck is 12v.

 

[Mgriz]

I don't think that's a dumb question, it's all kind of confusing... I'm sure most of the parts are the same on both versions anyway. The part number should tell you, I believe 28100-17030 is 24v and 28100-17040 is 12v. Mine also has 24v printed under the part number on the Denso tag. It would be great if you had a used 24v one you could part with! I found a replacement in town and they wanted roughly 600 USD for it, so I'm going to save that for my last resort.

 

[Mgriz]

So I disassembled the starter and it's not pretty. It looks like the solenoid plunger slightly welded itself to one of the contacts. This of course caused the starer to run constantly. It looks like this likely caused one of the commutator bars to heat up, expand, and lift up enough to catch the edge of a brush and then it was all she wrote. The brushes are all mangled, one commutator bar is all bent/broken. I'm tempted to try and pull that broken commutator bar out and see if it works for a temporary solution but that's probably a bad idea.

Check out the damage...

I can get new brushes, plunger, and contacts in the states but unfortunately I can't seem to find an armature. Looks like I'll need to replace the whole starter...

 

[arnott1t]

Give me a day or so to look at what I have. Somewhere in the shop is have a 24v 1hz starter that I want to steel the nose come from to make a 12v. If that's the case I could send you my motor and plunger assembly. If your not in to big a rush that is. I'm on northern alberta Canada. That's the truck....

 

[Mgriz]

Give me a day or so to look at what I have. Somewhere in the shop is have a 24v 1hz starter that I want to steel the nose come from to make a 12v. If that's the case I could send you my motor and plunger assembly. If your not in to big a rush that is. I'm on northern alberta Canada. That's the truck....

That would be excellent! I'm not in a big rush (this is Africa after all) but I of course would like to get it back on the road sooner rather than later. Let me know what you find and all we would need to do is get the parts to my fowarding address in Virginia or Washington DC depending on the timing of it all.

Thanks!

 

[arnott1t]

pm sent

 

[Mgriz]

Alright, back on the road, almost back to normal.

So I ended up getting a used starter (thanks arnott1t) that arrived earlier this week. I bench tested it and unfortunately the solenoid wasn't working... not a big deal, I just swapped the motor over to replace the one on my failed starter. I cleaned up inside and out and put in new contacts, a new plunger, and buttoned it up.

After a successful bench test I installed it and it worked, sounds strong, the 1HZ fires right up. Unfortunately, it isn't perfect so I'll probably have to pull the starter off again soon. About 30-40% of the time after starting it makes a loud clanging noise (kinda like a bell). It's not a continuous thing just one when the starter is disengaged. I don't think it's internal to the starter as it bench tested fine. So I'm thinking it's the pinion gear hitting the flywheel, but it doesn't really make much sense to me that it does it when it is disengaging... Any ideas?

 

[arnott1t]

Sorry to here it didn't fire right off. I tested it here and it was working. Must be a hemisphere thing .

Is the clanging constant or consistent or more random? Count the teeth on the starter to make sure they are the same.

 

[Mgriz]

No worries, the motor was in good shape, lots of life left on the brushes so I got what I needed out of it... It seems to be doing it every time, sometimes it's loud, sometimes just barely noticeable. Since I just switched the motor assemblies, the pinion, starter housing, etc are all the original pieces so it should fit exactly the same as before. I'm not too worried about it at this point, I'll probably just pull it off again this weekend and double check everything. Heck it could be some junk between the mating surfaces of the starter and block that's keeping the starter from mounting flush...