1994 FJ80 Engine diagnosis by Technician (Hydro locked)

[Riverbend]

Brief history- My timing chain was replaced about 5 years ago. I currently have 380k miles on my cruiser and my radiator, water pump, and thermostat were replaced 6 months ago. Cruiser was running great with no sign of it overheating. I parked it overnight then the next morning it would not start. Kept trying to start is then I heard something break (assumed it was a chain or gear). Took it to be checked and when valve cover was removed the timing chain was broken and had no compression. My technician performed a leak down test and coolant shot out the side, and technician said it was probably from the head. The technician stated that the head is bad and that the number 6 piston is likely damaged. The technician suggested that rather than incurring the cost to disassemble the engine only to find that it might not be rebuildable, he suggested that I should either replace it with a used engine or purchase a rebuilt long block and reuse/transfer all my functioning components to it. I found a used engine but there is no way to verify that it runs but my technician wanted to examine the spark plugs and see picture of the engine to see if there are any obvious leaks.

Based on the summary above, my questions for which your feedback would be appreciated are:

1) Is it logical to just replace the engine?
2) Is a used engine logical if I can't actually confirm its mileage or that it runs despite the salvage shop saying that it does?
3) Would it be better to just get a rebuilt long block?
4) I found a rebuilt 93-97 engine at AAAEngine.com (Does anyone have familiarity with this company)?
5) I found a rebuilt 93-94 engine at Engines-USA (Does anyone have familiarity with this company)?
6) Are there any other companies that you recommend that stock and sell these rebuilt long blocks?
7) Are 93- 97 engines interchangeable / compatible or does it have to be a 94?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Kernal]

You won't know the condition of the engine until you open it up, but with those miles it would make sense to do a complete rebuild.

If money is short the cheapest route would be a known running used engine, lowest miles you can find, but most people on MUD would probably want to at least replace the head gasket while the engine is in front of them.

AFAIK new OEM Toyota short blocks are still available, smart shopper price somewhere between $3500-4000 if you search around for discounts,
the block is the same for all years. Then have your original head rebuilt if it's good ($500-1000), or buy a new head (cost $1500-2000) also, add new springs and all new valves and drive it for another 300,000+ miles.

The cost of rebuilding a used block can get very close to the cost of a new short block, total cost depends on whether the used block needs to be bored out which would then require new larger pistons, rings etc which adds to the cost.

Most people on MUD would probably say avoid any engine rebuilt by some large national engine rebuilder as you don't know what components were put into it (some use inferior made in Chy-nuh parts). If you do a search online for the company mentioned above you'll find some negative reviews.

There is a MUD member who does rebuilds ie: one at a time (FJ80Oregon)

 

[DrDuc]

You might reach out to FJ80Oregon and see if he has any of his motors that would work for you.

 

[Fj80oregon]

you definitely got the life out of that engine! I have a rebuild going now that can be done by next weekend, or have two known good used motors but like others have said would kinda be crazy to just toss a motor in even if it has good compression numbers and a good leak down test done,who knows when the head gasket will fail? Both the used engine I have are around 220k miles. PM me if you wanna talk options even if it’s just to help you figure out a good path to proceed.

 

[manofthewoods]

Brief history- My timing chain was replaced about 5 years ago. I currently have 380k miles on my cruiser and my radiator, water pump, and thermostat were replaced 6 months ago. Cruiser was running great with no sign of it overheating. I parked it overnight then the next morning it would not start. Kept trying to start is then I heard something break (assumed it was a chain or gear). Took it to be checked and when valve cover was removed the timing chain was broken and had no compression. My technician performed a leak down test and coolant shot out the side, and technician said it was probably from the head. The technician stated that the head is bad and that the number 6 piston is likely damaged. The technician suggested that rather than incurring the cost to disassemble the engine only to find that it might not be rebuildable, he suggested that I should either replace it with a used engine or purchase a rebuilt long block and reuse/transfer all my functioning components to it. I found a used engine but there is no way to verify that it runs but my technician wanted to examine the spark plugs and see picture of the engine to see if there are any obvious leaks.

Based on the summary above, my questions for which your feedback would be appreciated are:

1) Is it logical to just replace the engine?
2) Is a used engine logical if I can't actually confirm its mileage or that it runs despite the salvage shop saying that it does?
3) Would it be better to just get a rebuilt long block?
4) I found a rebuilt 93-97 engine at AAAEngine.com (Does anyone have familiarity with this company)?
5) I found a rebuilt 93-94 engine at Engines-USA (Does anyone have familiarity with this company)?
6) Are there any other companies that you recommend that stock and sell these rebuilt long blocks?
7) Are 93- 97 engines interchangeable / compatible or does it have to be a 94?

Thanks in advance!

Fj80oregon is the only source I'd trust for an engine swap. I did a complete rebuild on mine at 372k miles. But, everything was working great. That made the job easier, cheaper and increased the odds of a good end product. I wanted to do it; didn't NEED to do it.
Liked it so much I'd like to do another.
Back to your situation, decide what you want out of your vehicle. No easy choices I'm afraid, nor cheap ones.
Best of luck

 

[12bit]

Fj80oregon is the only source I'd trust for an engine swap. I did a complete rebuild on mine at 372k miles. But, everything was working great. That made the job easier, cheaper and increased the odds of a good end product. I wanted to do it; didn't NEED to do it.
Liked it so much I'd like to do another.
Back to your situation, decide what you want out of your vehicle. No easy choices I'm afraid, nor cheap ones.
Best of luck

On a voluntary rebuild like this, did you need to get a machinist involved?

 

[manofthewoods]

On a voluntary rebuild like this, did you need to get a machinist involved?

Good question. In theory, I could have saved money by assuming the cylinders were not needing to be bored out (they actually didn't, machinist measured). And then done a poor man's hone (not exactly sure how???). I could have done the head work, I guess. I trusted the machinist completely, so what he charged was what he deserved for the confidence I was looking for.
To be clear, he:
-measured the cylinders
-honed the cylinders
-did normal head work needing to replace nothing at all.
Extensive cleaning of everything.
I did all the "shimming" of the valves; which is easy to do on the work bench.
HTH

 

[Riverbend]

You won't know the condition of the engine until you open it up, but with those miles it would make sense to do a complete rebuild.

If money is short the cheapest route would be a known running used engine, lowest miles you can find, but most people on MUD would probably want to at least replace the head gasket while the engine is in front of them.

AFAIK new OEM Toyota short blocks are still available, smart shopper price somewhere between $3500-4000 if you search around for discounts,
the block is the same for all years. Then have your original head rebuilt if it's good ($500-1000), or buy a new head (cost $1500-2000) also, add new springs and all new valves and drive it for another 300,000+ miles.

The cost of rebuilding a used block can get very close to the cost of a new short block, total cost depends on whether the used block needs to be bored out which would then require new larger pistons, rings etc which adds to the cost.

Most people on MUD would probably say avoid any engine rebuilt by some large national engine rebuilder as you don't know what components were put into it (some use inferior made in Chy-nuh parts). If you do a search online for the company mentioned above you'll find some negative reviews.

There is a MUD member who does rebuilds ie: one at a time (FJ80Oregon)

I appreciate the feedback but can you clarify a bit further.

Is AFAIK an actual company that provides new OEM Toyota short blocks?

If not, do you have the name of reputable non-national company or companies that you suggest?

I'm not sure how to reach out directly to FJ80Oregon or to you except via this blanket message?

Does a short block come assembled with the internals?

Thank you!

 

[AussieHJCruza]

AFAIK = as far as I know.

Any Toyota dealer can get a short block, some may not be interested/willing.

Short block = engine block and rotating assembly, i.e. crankshaft, rods, pistons, rings, bearings etc. No cylinder head or accessories.

 

[Kernal]

@Riverbend : You can get in touch with FJ80 Oregon via a direct message using the Mud forum messaging system (envelope icon top right next to your user name)

As mentioned above, a new Toyota short block, 11400-66041 is made by Toyota in Japan (brand new not rebuilt) then shipped to the dealer you ordered it from. It has the crankshaft, pistons and piston rings already installed. Some dealers have up to 25-30% discounts on parts so shop around and compare.

And then you (or your mechanic) transfers a bunch of parts including the original head (after a machine shop rebuilds it), intake manifold, oil pans, timing cover (add new timing chain, sprockets, slippers), valve cover, oil cooler, etc,etc from your old engine (assuming they're usable), maybe toss in a new water pump, fan clutch, send your fuel injectors out to be cleaned, install a new engine harness ($600) because your original will have broken/fragile heat/aged damaged plastic connectors and cracked wires, put it all together with a Toyota engine gasket kit,-----

You can dump a bunch of money into it.


To get oriented you can search you tubes for videos on rebuilding a 1FZFE (the engine model found in a FZJ80/LX450)

Here's a link to a few videos:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rebuilding+1FZFE+engine

Here's a link to OTRAMM's Series on replacing a head gasket for the 1FZFE:

This is part one, click on the next parts after viewing each segment:

 

[Riverbend]

@Riverbend : You can get in touch with FJ80 Oregon via a direct message using the Mud forum messaging system (envelope icon top right next to your user name)

As mentioned above, a new Toyota short block, 11400-66041 is made by Toyota in Japan (brand new not rebuilt) then shipped to the dealer you ordered it from. It has the crankshaft, pistons and piston rings already installed. Some dealers have up to 25-30% discounts on parts so shop around and compare.

And then you (or your mechanic) transfers a bunch of parts including the original head (after a machine shop rebuilds it), intake manifold, oil pans, timing cover (add new timing chain, sprockets, slippers), valve cover, oil cooler, etc,etc from your old engine (assuming they're usable), maybe toss in a new water pump, fan clutch, send your fuel injectors out to be cleaned, install a new engine harness ($600) because your original will have broken/fragile heat/aged damaged plastic connectors and cracked wires, put it all together with a Toyota engine gasket kit,-----

You can dump a bunch of money into it.


To get oriented you can search you tubes for videos on rebuilding a 1FZFE (the engine model found in a FZJ80/LX450)

Here's a link to a few videos:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rebuilding+1FZFE+engine

Here's a link to OTRAMM's Series on replacing a head gasket for the 1FZFE:

This is part one, click on the next parts after viewing each segment:

Hello Kernal,
Thanks for your input and I'm beginning to get the feel of using the forum. I didn't realize that Fj80Oregon had actually provided an initial response. I just earlier sent him another message directly similar to my comments and questions below.

Per your suggestion I contacted Toyota, and a non-discounted new engine is $6100 and head is $2500 then $800 for a gasket kit and who knows how much for the labor to remove the engine, swap usable components and put all the new stuff back together and install. I don't have $10 - $15K to spend.

I did reach out to Fj80Oregon to find out what his rebuilt engine and or head would cost and I'm awaiting feedback.
It may be that when I get his price and add that to a rebuilt head have my original engine removed then other parts swapped, and engine reinstalled it still may be $10K.

The other option that I am seriously considering is a used long block (engine and head) that is running. I have found 2 potential long blocks. One of them is from a 1994 for $3000 that had 208K miles on it and the other is a 1996 for $3500 that has 140K miles on it since you said that the engines are interchangeable.

I think you said that replacing the head gasket would be wise on a used engine even if I don't fully rebuild the head?

I assume that would be the case regardless of whether it's the 208K 31-year-old engine or the 140K 29-year-old engine?

Does just replacing the head gasket potentially create problems that doing nothing to the used engine might be better?

I have no idea what the cost might be to replace just the head gasket?

Sorry to be a perpetual pest with endless questions, but I'm trying to find a way to get my FJ80 on the road again without breaking the bank or doing something really dumb.

Thanks again!

 

[Riverbend]

AFAIK = as far as I know.

Any Toyota dealer can get a short block, some may not be interested/willing.

Short block = engine block and rotating assembly, i.e. crankshaft, rods, pistons, rings, bearings etc. No cylinder head or accessories.

Hello AussieHJCruza,
Thanks for deciphering the acronym for me and explaining what a short block is.

I contacted Toyota, and a non-discounted new engine is $6100 and head is $2500 then $800 for a gasket kit and who knows how much for the labor to remove the engine, swap usable components and put all the new stuff back together and install. I don't have $10 - $15K to spend.

I did reach out to Fj80Oregon to find out what his rebuilt engine and or head would cost and I'm awaiting feedback.
It may be that when I get his price and add that to a rebuilt head have my original engine removed then other parts swapped, and engine reinstalled it still may be $10K.

The other option that I am seriously considering is a used long block (engine and head) that is running. I have found 2 potential long blocks. One of them is from a 1994 for $3000 that had 208K miles on it and the other is a 1996 for $3500 that has 140K miles on it since you said that the engines are interchangeable.

I was old that replacing the head gasket would be wise on a used engine even if I don't fully rebuild the head?

I assume that would be the case regardless of whether it's the 208K 31-year-old engine or the 140K 29-year-old engine?

Does just replacing the head gasket potentially create problems that doing nothing to the used engine might be better?

I have no idea what the cost might be to replace just the head gasket?

Seeking lots of input thus the endless questions, but I'm trying to find a way to get my FJ80 on the road again without breaking the bank or doing something really dumb.

Thanks again!

 

[manofthewoods]

Hello Kernal,
Thanks for your input and I'm beginning to get the feel of using the forum. I didn't realize that Fj80Oregon had actually provided an initial response. I just earlier sent him another message directly similar to my comments and questions below.

Per your suggestion I contacted Toyota, and a non-discounted new engine is $6100 and head is $2500 then $800 for a gasket kit and who knows how much for the labor to remove the engine, swap usable components and put all the new stuff back together and install. I don't have $10 - $15K to spend.

I did reach out to Fj80Oregon to find out what his rebuilt engine and or head would cost and I'm awaiting feedback.
It may be that when I get his price and add that to a rebuilt head have my original engine removed then other parts swapped, and engine reinstalled it still may be $10K.

The other option that I am seriously considering is a used long block (engine and head) that is running. I have found 2 potential long blocks. One of them is from a 1994 for $3000 that had 208K miles on it and the other is a 1996 for $3500 that has 140K miles on it since you said that the engines are interchangeable.

I think you said that replacing the head gasket would be wise on a used engine even if I don't fully rebuild the head?

I assume that would be the case regardless of whether it's the 208K 31-year-old engine or the 140K 29-year-old engine?

Does just replacing the head gasket potentially create problems that doing nothing to the used engine might be better?

I have no idea what the cost might be to replace just the head gasket?

Sorry to be a perpetual pest with endless questions, but I'm trying to find a way to get my FJ80 on the road again without breaking the bank or doing something really dumb.

Thanks again!

Sounds like you have difficult decisions to make.
The challenge with a used engine is that anything non-metalic is going to be a problem; due more to age than mileage.
Best of luck

 

[AussieHJCruza]

Hello AussieHJCruza,
Thanks for deciphering the acronym for me and explaining what a short block is.

I contacted Toyota, and a non-discounted new engine is $6100 and head is $2500 then $800 for a gasket kit and who knows how much for the labor to remove the engine, swap usable components and put all the new stuff back together and install. I don't have $10 - $15K to spend.

I did reach out to Fj80Oregon to find out what his rebuilt engine and or head would cost and I'm awaiting feedback.
It may be that when I get his price and add that to a rebuilt head have my original engine removed then other parts swapped, and engine reinstalled it still may be $10K.

The other option that I am seriously considering is a used long block (engine and head) that is running. I have found 2 potential long blocks. One of them is from a 1994 for $3000 that had 208K miles on it and the other is a 1996 for $3500 that has 140K miles on it since you said that the engines are interchangeable.

I was old that replacing the head gasket would be wise on a used engine even if I don't fully rebuild the head?

I assume that would be the case regardless of whether it's the 208K 31-year-old engine or the 140K 29-year-old engine?

Does just replacing the head gasket potentially create problems that doing nothing to the used engine might be better?

I have no idea what the cost might be to replace just the head gasket?

Seeking lots of input thus the endless questions, but I'm trying to find a way to get my FJ80 on the road again without breaking the bank or doing something really dumb.

Thanks again!

I'd encourage you to go shopping - you should be able to get 11400-66041 for under 4k USD.

Alternatively @Fj80oregon is a good choice for a rebuilt engine

 

[Fj80oregon]

Rebuilt motor from me is $7500. That’s a complete long block with OEM parts, pistons, rings, bearings, timing cover and components, used oil cooler with new cover, new harmonic balancer, Fron/rear main seal, ARP head studs. Oil oans to valve cover installed. If you are doing it your self you can stay under 10k, if you know a good machine shop that can rework your head and block it really depends how much else you change for pricing. I can chat tomorrow if you want to talk options even if it’s not buying an engine from me happy to discuss.

 

[clx16]

Sounds like you are thinking about paying labor for the work. You may need to depending on space etc. However a happy medium would be buying the rebuild and then buying the engine lift etc and putting it in yourself. Way cheaper than labor and you can knock 30% off the new price and sell it when you are done.